[sip-comm-dev] Uniquely identifying a news item


#1

Hi all,
I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.

One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).

So, any ideas are more than welcome.

TIA,
Mihai

···

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#2

Hi Mihai,

I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your problem in the same time :slight_smile: )

Cheers,
Ben

Mihai Balan a écrit :

···

Hi all,
I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.

One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).

So, any ideas are more than welcome.

TIA,
Mihai

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#3

Hello everyone,

I must say that I agree with Ben on this issue. Furthermore, I think that
there might be some problems with the internationalization ('update' is not
that used outside the english-speaking countries) and the history (you could
open a history window and make 'update'-s for all entries you need more
information, but honestly, if I have to do something like this, I would find
myself another RSS client).

In fact I'm wondering if your code, being a protocol provider implementation,
should worry at all on how data is displayed. Sure, it's not very
eye-pleasing to see tons of text scroll on the screen with no apparent
structure, but I think that this problem should be resolved by the GUI.

I'm not very familiar with how the GUI is currently rendering the text in the
message window, but I think that it would be nice for a protocol
implementation to be able to say "ok, I have a new message + some additional
information attached (description, etc.)" and leave the GUI decide how
exactly this all should be layed off (text+ "more" button, text+tooltip,
bulky text, etc).

On the other hand I'm not sure if this is not going to be very difficult, so
for now you may want to try trimming a little bit the description (like
showing just the link + 1-2 lines of description + ...). Being able to
specify tooltips over the links may also solve the problem (the tooltip
containing several lines of the description).

What do you think on all this? Do you think that further complication of the
GUI for the sake of simplified,improved and more consistent protocol
implementation behavior is worth it at this stage of the development?

Regards,
Alex

···

On Sunday 08 July 2007 14:11:02 Benoit Pradelle wrote:

Hi Mihai,

I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you
are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are
really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a
terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle for
you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or
something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your problem
in the same time :slight_smile: )

Cheers,
Ben

Mihai Balan a écrit :
> Hi all,
> I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
> I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
> bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
> following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
> the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
> window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
> unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
> least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.
>
> One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
> is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
> for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
> in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).
>
> So, any ideas are more than welcome.
>
> TIA,
> Mihai
>
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#4

Hi Benoit,

Thanks for your good advice :slight_smile:
Effectively, it will be great to receives news with something like this:

<a href="http://the_news_page.com">The title of the news</a>
<sc_specific_tag>More info</sc_specific_tag>

Then, the user will just have to:
1) - click on the title to open the news into a browser.
2) - click on "More info" to get the abstract of the news in the current SC dialog box.

The last question is:
- What tag can we use to get the action number 2) working without changing the default behavior (or creating a new action useful for all protocols) of the SC dialog box.

Cheers,
Vincent

Benoit Pradelle wrote:

···

Hi Mihai,

I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your problem in the same time :slight_smile: )

Cheers,
Ben

Mihai Balan a écrit :

Hi all,
I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.

One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).

So, any ideas are more than welcome.

TIA,
Mihai

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#5

I don't know exactly how the main chat window deals with *ALL* HTML
tags, but I would think of a little hack, that would include using a
<form>, a <input type="button"> and something else. But then again, I
think I'm overestimating the HTML rendering capabilities included in
SC :smiley:

Cheers,
Mihai

···

On 7/8/07, Vincent Lucas <lucas@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:

Hi Benoit,

Thanks for your good advice :slight_smile:
Effectively, it will be great to receives news with something like this:

<a href="http://the_news_page.com">The title of the news</a>
<sc_specific_tag>More info</sc_specific_tag>

Then, the user will just have to:
1) - click on the title to open the news into a browser.
2) - click on "More info" to get the abstract of the news in the current
SC dialog box.

The last question is:
- What tag can we use to get the action number 2) working without
changing the default behavior (or creating a new action useful for all
protocols) of the SC dialog box.

Cheers,
Vincent

Benoit Pradelle wrote:
> Hi Mihai,
>
> I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you
> are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are
> really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a
> terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle
> for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or
> something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your
> problem in the same time :slight_smile: )
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>
> Mihai Balan a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>> I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
>> I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
>> bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
>> following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
>> the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
>> window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
>> unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
>> least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.
>>
>> One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
>> is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
>> for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
>> in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).
>>
>> So, any ideas are more than welcome.
>>
>> TIA,
>> Mihai
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
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#6

So, the good news is that the chat window HTML panel knows how to
handle <form> and <input> tags, so I managed to display a pushable
button. The bad news is that, unsurprisingly it does not support
JavaScript (I was initially thinking about making the news body
visible on demand, upon a button press using Javascript).

So, if anyone could give me a hint on how HTML forms event are handled
in SC (if they are) it would be of great help :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance,
Mihai

···

On 7/8/07, Mihai Balan <mihai.balan@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know exactly how the main chat window deals with *ALL* HTML
tags, but I would think of a little hack, that would include using a
<form>, a <input type="button"> and something else. But then again, I
think I'm overestimating the HTML rendering capabilities included in
SC :smiley:

Cheers,
Mihai

On 7/8/07, Vincent Lucas <lucas@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> Hi Benoit,
>
> Thanks for your good advice :slight_smile:
> Effectively, it will be great to receives news with something like this:
>
> <a href="http://the_news_page.com">The title of the news</a>
> <sc_specific_tag>More info</sc_specific_tag>
>
> Then, the user will just have to:
> 1) - click on the title to open the news into a browser.
> 2) - click on "More info" to get the abstract of the news in the current
> SC dialog box.
>
> The last question is:
> - What tag can we use to get the action number 2) working without
> changing the default behavior (or creating a new action useful for all
> protocols) of the SC dialog box.
>
> Cheers,
> Vincent
>
> Benoit Pradelle wrote:
> > Hi Mihai,
> >
> > I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you
> > are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are
> > really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a
> > terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle
> > for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or
> > something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your
> > problem in the same time :slight_smile: )
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> >
> > Mihai Balan a écrit :
> >> Hi all,
> >> I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
> >> I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
> >> bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
> >> following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
> >> the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
> >> window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
> >> unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
> >> least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.
> >>
> >> One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
> >> is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
> >> for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
> >> in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).
> >>
> >> So, any ideas are more than welcome.
> >>
> >> TIA,
> >> Mihai
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
>


#7

Hi Mihai,

we don't handle HTML form events for now. The only event that we handle is the HyperlinkEvent. I've had a quick tour in some forums treating the subject and I think it could be done without using JavaScript. You could have a look and see if it could be implemented easily using a JEditorPane and HTMLEditorKit (that's what we use to visualize HTML) and if it's not so easy you could use a simple link for now.

Yana

Mihai Balan wrote:

···

So, the good news is that the chat window HTML panel knows how to
handle <form> and <input> tags, so I managed to display a pushable
button. The bad news is that, unsurprisingly it does not support
JavaScript (I was initially thinking about making the news body
visible on demand, upon a button press using Javascript).

So, if anyone could give me a hint on how HTML forms event are handled
in SC (if they are) it would be of great help :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance,
Mihai

On 7/8/07, Mihai Balan <mihai.balan@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know exactly how the main chat window deals with *ALL* HTML
tags, but I would think of a little hack, that would include using a
<form>, a <input type="button"> and something else. But then again, I
think I'm overestimating the HTML rendering capabilities included in
SC :smiley:

Cheers,
Mihai

On 7/8/07, Vincent Lucas <lucas@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:
> Hi Benoit,
>
> Thanks for your good advice :slight_smile:
> Effectively, it will be great to receives news with something like this:
>
> <a href="http://the_news_page.com">The title of the news</a>
> <sc_specific_tag>More info</sc_specific_tag>
>
> Then, the user will just have to:
> 1) - click on the title to open the news into a browser.
> 2) - click on "More info" to get the abstract of the news in the current
> SC dialog box.
>
> The last question is:
> - What tag can we use to get the action number 2) working without
> changing the default behavior (or creating a new action useful for all
> protocols) of the SC dialog box.
>
> Cheers,
> Vincent
>
> Benoit Pradelle wrote:
> > Hi Mihai,
> >
> > I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how you
> > are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are
> > really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a
> > terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle
> > for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or
> > something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your
> > problem in the same time :slight_smile: )
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ben
> >
> > Mihai Balan a écrit :
> >> Hi all,
> >> I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
> >> I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
> >> bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
> >> following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
> >> the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate browser
> >> window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
> >> unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
> >> least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.
> >>
> >> One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
> >> is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be friendly
> >> for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news body
> >> in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique identifiers).
> >>
> >> So, any ideas are more than welcome.
> >>
> >> TIA,
> >> Mihai
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> >
>
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#8

Hey all,

My personal opinion is that we're complicating things more than we have
to. I definitely like the idea of not showing the link itself and
associating it with the title instead.

However, I think that if there is an abstract, we should simply be
showing it right from the start. We could of course use a different font
and size so that it won't take much space but still, it should be
available for the user to read it if they want to.

In the case of sip-communicator, we'd be using RSS as a notification
mechanism. All that users would need would be a message telling them
that a new rss item has become available for a particular flow, and a
quick way for them to determine whether they want to read the
corresponding article or not. I am afraid that adding an extra step,
like clicking on a button in order to get the abstract, would only add
unnecessary complexity to the whole process.

I'd suggest that we first try the following display:

<a href="http://news.google.com/latest_news.html">SIP Communicator
becomes the most widely used IM client!</a> - Multiple agencies are
reporting an unseen uptake in the usage of the SIP Communicator client
during the last few months ...

If we decide that we want extra features later, we'd have all the time
to add them, but I don't think that the basic use case should be any
more complicated than this.

What do you think?

Emil

Yana Stamcheva wrote:

···

Hi Mihai,

we don't handle HTML form events for now. The only event that we handle
is the HyperlinkEvent. I've had a quick tour in some forums treating the
subject and I think it could be done without using JavaScript. You could
have a look and see if it could be implemented easily using a
JEditorPane and HTMLEditorKit (that's what we use to visualize HTML) and
if it's not so easy you could use a simple link for now.

Yana

Mihai Balan wrote:

So, the good news is that the chat window HTML panel knows how to
handle <form> and <input> tags, so I managed to display a pushable
button. The bad news is that, unsurprisingly it does not support
JavaScript (I was initially thinking about making the news body
visible on demand, upon a button press using Javascript).

So, if anyone could give me a hint on how HTML forms event are handled
in SC (if they are) it would be of great help :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance,
Mihai

On 7/8/07, Mihai Balan <mihai.balan@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't know exactly how the main chat window deals with *ALL* HTML
tags, but I would think of a little hack, that would include using a
<form>, a <input type="button"> and something else. But then again, I
think I'm overestimating the HTML rendering capabilities included in
SC :smiley:

Cheers,
Mihai

On 7/8/07, Vincent Lucas <lucas@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> wrote:

Hi Benoit,

Thanks for your good advice :slight_smile:
Effectively, it will be great to receives news with something like

this:

<a href="http://the_news_page.com">The title of the news</a>
<sc_specific_tag>More info</sc_specific_tag>

Then, the user will just have to:
1) - click on the title to open the news into a browser.
2) - click on "More info" to get the abstract of the news in the

current

SC dialog box.

The last question is:
- What tag can we use to get the action number 2) working without
changing the default behavior (or creating a new action useful for all
protocols) of the SC dialog box.

Cheers,
Vincent

Benoit Pradelle wrote:

Hi Mihai,

I confess that I never used RSS in SC and I don't know exactly how

you

are handling it but I think that normal users (I mean not geeks) are
really repulsed by the idea of using anything which looks like a
terminal. Typing something is surely something really easy to handle
for you I think, but isn't it possible to put a button or a link or
something really more user friendly ? (this will also solve your
problem in the same time :slight_smile: )

Cheers,
Ben

Mihai Balan a écrit :

Hi all,
I'm currently working on refining the RSS support in SC. One issue
I've spotted is that the messages announcing new items are a bit
bulky. After some discussions with Vincent we come up with the
following solution: by default show a very brief title that links to
the original page. If the user doesn't want to open a separate

browser

window, (s)he then types something like "update X" (where X is a
unique identifier for the news in the feed) and the full body (or at
least what is contained in the feed) is displayed, nicely formatted.

One problem I see here and that I could get some help on (or ideas),
is how to devise this unique identifier in order for it to be

friendly

for the user (no one would like to type a GUID just to see a news

body

in SC, although that's quite good for generating unique

identifiers).

So, any ideas are more than welcome.

TIA,
Mihai

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#9

Hi Emil,

My personal opinion is that we're complicating things more than we have
to. I definitely like the idea of not showing the link itself and
associating it with the title instead.

However, I think that if there is an abstract, we should simply be
showing it right from the start. We could of course use a different font
and size so that it won't take much space but still, it should be
available for the user to read it if they want to.

As a matter of fact that's what I've been thinking about that for a
couple of days. Offering a notification and a little description
should be more than enough, as there are very few feeds that offer the
full story in the feed.

In the case of sip-communicator, we'd be using RSS as a notification
mechanism. All that users would need would be a message telling them
that a new rss item has become available for a particular flow, and a
quick way for them to determine whether they want to read the
corresponding article or not. I am afraid that adding an extra step,
like clicking on a button in order to get the abstract, would only add
unnecessary complexity to the whole process.

Totally agree :slight_smile:

I'd suggest that we first try the following display:

<a href="http://news.google.com/latest_news.html">SIP Communicator
becomes the most widely used IM client!</a> - Multiple agencies are
reporting an unseen uptake in the usage of the SIP Communicator client
during the last few months ...

I'm working on this exact approach but for reasons totally unknown to
me, the output in the chat window is totally messed up, although the
Message is properly constructed (as I can see on the console output).
For instance, for the following HTML:

<i>At Mon Jul 09 13:28:03 EEST 2007</i><br>Sony cuts price of
PS3 on eve of E3 - San Francisco Chronicle <a href="http://news.google.com/news
/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D/
c/a/2007/07/09/BUGPUQSED41.DTL&cid=1117989844&ei=0xmSRt7pLIKy0QHNy6yjDA">
Link</a><br>

I get something like:

At Mon Jul 09 13:28:03 EEST 2007 Sony cuts price of PS3 on eve of E3 -
San Francisco Chronicle
news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D/c/a/2007/07/09/BUGPUQSED41.DTL&cid=1117989844&ei=HBuSRsv2EIiy0AGTl4mjDA">Link
At">http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/4-0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ff%3D/c/a/2007/07/09/BUGPUQSED41.DTL&cid=1117989844&ei=HBuSRsv2EIiy0AGTl4mjDA">Link

that is all in italics and on a Orange background :frowning:
Am I missing something? I set the content-type to "text/html". Is
there anything else that I'm missing?

If we decide that we want extra features later, we'd have all the time
to add them, but I don't think that the basic use case should be any
more complicated than this.

What do you think?

It's OK :slight_smile:

Emil

Thanks in advance,
Mihai

···

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