[sip-comm-dev] Some think I dislike...


#1

Hi *,

now I am watching the development of SIP Communicator since over a half
year and have found some things I dislike:

1) The "Preferences Dialog" has no "Close Button".
2) The "Advanced Call history search" has no "Close Button".

those two are clutering under a WindowManager the Taskbar useless

3) Many errors in the german translation.
4) Missing german translations.

5) If I Double-Cick a Buddy I do not know from the message window
    AS WHICH USER I chat. (I have two ICQ, three Jabber, 4 MSN
    and 8 SIP Accounts)

6) Connecting to my FreeSWITCH using SIP crash the whole thing...

7) Even if I have deactivated "Bringe Chat Fenster in den Vorderung"
    (Yes there is a error in the phrase) whenever someone send me a
    message, it sucks the Focus accros my 16 Pages/Desktops which I
    consider as security thing because if I am writing non-public
    documents, I can not wrte withou lookingon the keyboard and if I
    hit enter, I maybe send stuff to the public. -- Not realy funny!

8) Also in the menu were I can set th global status the is no optinon
    where I can set all to "Away" but not hidden...
    This force me to set ALL 10 Mesanger accounts manualy and is anoying

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

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···

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#2

Hello,

Aditional one thing:

9) The "My chat rooms" dialog has no "Close Button".

how can this be solved...
SIP-Communicator has now 5 Icons in the Taskbar.

It becomes anoying
Michelle

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···

Am 2010-01-13 00:41:45, schrieb Michelle Konzack:

Hi *,

now I am watching the development of SIP Communicator since over a half
year and have found some things I dislike:

1) The "Preferences Dialog" has no "Close Button".
2) The "Advanced Call history search" has no "Close Button".

those two are clutering under a WindowManager the Taskbar useless

3) Many errors in the german translation.
4) Missing german translations.

5) If I Double-Cick a Buddy I do not know from the message window
    AS WHICH USER I chat. (I have two ICQ, three Jabber, 4 MSN
    and 8 SIP Accounts)

6) Connecting to my FreeSWITCH using SIP crash the whole thing...

7) Even if I have deactivated "Bringe Chat Fenster in den Vorderung"
    (Yes there is a error in the phrase) whenever someone send me a
    message, it sucks the Focus accros my 16 Pages/Desktops which I
    consider as security thing because if I am writing non-public
    documents, I can not wrte withou lookingon the keyboard and if I
    hit enter, I maybe send stuff to the public. -- Not realy funny!

8) Also in the menu were I can set th global status the is no optinon
    where I can set all to "Away" but not hidden...
    This force me to set ALL 10 Mesanger accounts manualy and is anoying

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
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------------------------ END OF REPLIED MESSAGE ------------------------

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##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
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<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
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#3

Hi Michelle

···

Le 15 janv. 2010 à 00:27, Michelle Konzack a écrit :

9) The "My chat rooms" dialog has no "Close Button".

What do you mean by "Close button"? I may be a little dummy
today but the frame have the default close button enabled so
I don't see where is the problem...

What do you use as desktop environment?

Regards,
Valentin
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#4

Hello,

What do you mean by "Close button"? I may be a little dummy
today but the frame have the default close button enabled so
I don't see where is the problem...

What do you use as desktop environment?

Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 Lenny
X.org 1:7.3+20
Fvwm 1:2.5.26-1

Screenshoot attached...

Only the main window and the message window have the standard buttons
like

Minimize
Maximize
Close

all other windows use only the "Minimize" one.

I have the same problem under an Ubuntu standard installation and it
seems, that th reason ist the difference betwen the resources

    sun-awt-X11-XFramePeer
and
    sun-awt-X11-XDialogThread

because the second tell me under (X and FVWM) debug that SIP Comunicator
request a "Dialog Window" without "Maximize" and "Close". So it is JAVA
which do this.

I know, I can enforce the two buttons by adding a new Style (decoration)
to my FVWM config but if I klick klose, SIP Communicator crashs.

Same if I use xkill to get rid of the dialog. SIP Communicator write
arround 400 lines of errors in my ~/.xsession-errors

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

signature.pgp (189 Bytes)

···

Am 2010-01-15 10:40:34, schrieb Valentin MARTINET:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193


#5

Hi Michelle,

The thing is that the main window is a frame and all other windows on your screenshot are actually dialogs. Apparently your window manager decided to show the "Maximise" and "Close" buttons only for frames. You could check if you experience the same issue with other java applications using dialogs. We haven't added "Close" buttons to each dialog, in the idea to keep the interface as simple as possible and get rid of any kind of redundancy (in this case with the X button).

1) The "Preferences Dialog" has no "Close Button".
2) The "Advanced Call history search" has no "Close Button".

those two are clutering under a WindowManager the Taskbar useless

3) Many errors in the german translation.
4) Missing german translations.

5) If I Double-Cick a Buddy I do not know from the message window
   AS WHICH USER I chat. (I have two ICQ, three Jabber, 4 MSN
   and 8 SIP Accounts)

On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

6) Connecting to my FreeSWITCH using SIP crash the whole thing...

7) Even if I have deactivated "Bringe Chat Fenster in den Vorderung"
   (Yes there is a error in the phrase) whenever someone send me a
   message, it sucks the Focus accros my 16 Pages/Desktops which I
   consider as security thing because if I am writing non-public
   documents, I can not wrte withou lookingon the keyboard and if I
   hit enter, I maybe send stuff to the public. -- Not realy funny!

There's an issue corresponding to this one that you can check out here: https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=578. Some discussions on the subject are also attached.

8) Also in the menu were I can set th global status the is no optinon
   where I can set all to "Away" but not hidden...
   This force me to set ALL 10 Mesanger accounts manualy and is anoying

Again an issue already exists for this problem (https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=671). I see it's scheduled for 1.1.

Cheers,
Yana

···

On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Michelle Konzack wrote:

Hello,

Am 2010-01-15 10:40:34, schrieb Valentin MARTINET:

What do you mean by "Close button"? I may be a little dummy
today but the frame have the default close button enabled so
I don't see where is the problem...

What do you use as desktop environment?

Debian GNU/Linux 5.0 Lenny
X.org 1:7.3+20
Fvwm 1:2.5.26-1

Screenshoot attached...

Only the main window and the message window have the standard buttons
like

Minimize
Maximize
Close

all other windows use only the "Minimize" one.

I have the same problem under an Ubuntu standard installation and it
seems, that th reason ist the difference betwen the resources

   sun-awt-X11-XFramePeer
and
   sun-awt-X11-XDialogThread

because the second tell me under (X and FVWM) debug that SIP Comunicator
request a "Dialog Window" without "Maximize" and "Close". So it is JAVA
which do this.

I know, I can enforce the two buttons by adding a new Style (decoration)
to my FVWM config but if I klick klose, SIP Communicator crashs.

Same if I use xkill to get rid of the dialog. SIP Communicator write
arround 400 lines of errors in my ~/.xsession-errors

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
   Michelle Konzack
   Systemadministrator
   Electronic Engineer
   Tamay Dogan Network
   Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193
<20100116123334_resampled.jpg>

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#6

Hello,

Hi Michelle,

The thing is that the main window is a frame and all other windows on
your screenshot are actually dialogs. Apparently your window manager
decided to show the "Maximise" and "Close" buttons only for frames.
You could check if you experience the same issue with other java
applications using dialogs. We haven't added "Close" buttons to each
dialog, in the idea to keep the interface as simple as possible and
get rid of any kind of redundancy (in this case with the X button).

My "Sun Microsystems Network Administration Software" show the buttons
on some dialogs but smetimes not.

> 5) If I Double-Cick a Buddy I do not know from the message window
> AS WHICH USER I chat. (I have two ICQ, three Jabber, 4 MSN
> and 8 SIP Accounts)

On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

    linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
    michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
    electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,

    Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
    Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

> 7) Even if I have deactivated "Bringe Chat Fenster in den Vorderung"
> (Yes there is a error in the phrase) whenever someone send me a
> message, it sucks the Focus accros my 16 Pages/Desktops which I
> consider as security thing because if I am writing non-public
> documents, I can not wrte withou lookingon the keyboard and if I
> hit enter, I maybe send stuff to the public. -- Not realy funny!

There's an issue corresponding to this one that you can check out here:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=578. Some
discussions on the subject are also attached.

OK

> 8) Also in the menu were I can set th global status the is no optinon
> where I can set all to "Away" but not hidden...
> This force me to set ALL 10 Mesanger accounts manualy and is anoying

Again an issue already exists for this problem
(https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=671).
I see it's scheduled for 1.1.

OK

Cheers,
Yana

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

signature.pgp (189 Bytes)

···

Am 2010-01-20 11:59:21, schrieb Yana Stamcheva:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193


#7

Michelle,

Michelle Konzack написа:

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

It does actually. The tiny numbers on the icon should allow you to
determine which account you are using.

Cheers,
Emil

···

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#8

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

The "send via" does not show correctly because what it really shows is
"receiving from".
It does not allow choosing which account to send from.

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

Earl

On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

    linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
    michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
    electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,

    Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
    Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

···

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#9

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and received
when in fact this is an impossibility.

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.

Earl

Earl wrote:

···

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

The "send via" does not show correctly because what it really shows is
"receiving from".
It does not allow choosing which account to send from.

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

Earl

>
On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

   linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
   michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
   electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,
   Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
   Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

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#10

Hello Earl,

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

:wink:

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Absolutely not...

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

Hmmm, -- maybe you have the same Partner and communicating over non-
encrypted crappy ICQ and want to switch to encrypted Jabber?

This would be absolutely the only reason.

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

:smiley:

Note: I have found Errors in my translation...
       Will try to correct it soon.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

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···

Am 2010-01-20 15:58:48, schrieb Earl:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193


#11

Hello,

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a
new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and
received
when in fact this is an impossibility.

I have this encountered too...
Was very strange compared to Pidgin...

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.

Question: Is it right, tha a Jabebr Server allo multiple connections?

I have send a essage to a fried from PidGin and it tried to receive the
Key and send the message while SIP was open... My friend respondewd and
the mesages looked right in Pidgin, but in Jabber it arrives as an
unreadable crypted string....

So <jabber.ccc.de> has send the message from my friend to both instances
(Pidgin and SIP)

If this is real, it is prfect because I am working on three workstations
and a TablePC andit does not more matter, where I am.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

signature.pgp (189 Bytes)

···

Am 2010-01-20 16:12:14, schrieb Earl:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193


#12

Michelle,

[snip]

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?
    
Absolutely not...
  

I suggest that the drop down "send via" be removed from *established* chat
windows. The blue bar at the top should be long enough to hold the IDs
of both chat partners. This would change as different chat tabs were clicked.

  

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?
    
Hmmm, -- maybe you have the same Partner and communicating over non-
encrypted crappy ICQ and want to switch to encrypted Jabber?

This would be absolutely the only reason.
  

I think if one wishes to change a chat account, the user should be forced to end the present
chat (or just leave it hanging) and start a more appropriate chat with a different account.
I don't see having multiple chat tabs open as any disadvantage.
*In my opinion, it should not be permitted to change an account on the fly once
a chat has been established.* Therefore the "send via" drop down should not appear
in established chat windows.

[snip]

Earl

···

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#13

Hi Earl,

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and received
when in fact this is an impossibility.

Actually we're already handling this one. When you try to send your message you should get an error in the chat window looking like this:

"me at 10:34:19
[your_message]
The above message could not be delivered ......"

Have you seen something like that ? If not, could you please check if your server respond with an error to the message.

Cheers,
Yana

···

On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Earl wrote:

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.

Earl

Earl wrote:

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

The "send via" does not show correctly because what it really shows is
"receiving from".
It does not allow choosing which account to send from.

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

Earl

>
On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

  linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
  michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
  electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,
  Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
  Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

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#14

Michelle Konzack wrote:

Hello,

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a
new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and
received
when in fact this is an impossibility.
    
I have this encountered too...
Was very strange compared to Pidgin...
  

Pidgin is XMPP and can not be compared to SIP SIMPLE messaging.
One of the fantastic things about SC is that both protocols are included and the
user can choose and change as desired.

When SC has XMPP voice with ZRTP, it will be a knock-out program.
And when it becomes portable with no C: drive and no WIN registry as in
USB stick, it will be Nr. 1 on the Hit-Parade. A must-have program.

  

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.
    
Question: Is it right, tha a Jabebr Server allo multiple connections?

I have send a essage to a fried from PidGin and it tried to receive the
Key and send the message while SIP was open... My friend respondewd and
the mesages looked right in Pidgin, but in Jabber it arrives as an
unreadable crypted string....

So <jabber.ccc.de> has send the message from my friend to both instances
(Pidgin and SIP)

If this is real, it is prfect because I am working on three workstations
and a TablePC andit does not more matter, where I am.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening, Michelle

[snip]

Jabber has an attribute called "resource". This attribute can be different in the client used
at work and at home. For example, this attribute could be:
SC_Michele_Laptop
and at another computer
SC_Michele_Work
and at another computer
SC_Michele_Kitchen
and at another computer
SC_Michele_Sauna

you can set the attribute to whatever you want.
A jabber server can be set to only allow one login per JID, but usually the default is much more.
Multiple log-ins per account don't load the server down, so why not?
The P2P endpoints should be doing almost all the work and the server not.

Regards, Earl

···

Am 2010-01-20 16:12:14, schrieb Earl:

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#15

Hi Earl, Michelle,

Just committed a quick fix to show the current account we're chatting with. It's now shown in the tooltip of the "Send via" box and in the drop down near the contact (r6661).

I agree it could be a good idea to have this information more accessible (as in Pidgin), because it seems a little hidden and not very intuitive with the "send via" box right now. However I still think we should keep the information about who we're chatting with. I also find it important to be able to change your account / destination contact while in a conversation. I personally have quite a lot merged (combined) contacts, where I have two sub-contacts coming from the same account and when chatting with such "meta contacts" I do need to distinguish the specific contact I'm chatting with. I want also to be able to change it, for example if I know that the guy on the other side prefers to receive certain messages on it's private account and not it's professional one.

Cheers,
Yana

···

On Jan 20, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Earl wrote:

Michelle,

[snip]

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?
   
Absolutely not...

I suggest that the drop down "send via" be removed from *established* chat
windows. The blue bar at the top should be long enough to hold the IDs
of both chat partners. This would change as different chat tabs were clicked.

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?
   
Hmmm, -- maybe you have the same Partner and communicating over non-
encrypted crappy ICQ and want to switch to encrypted Jabber?

This would be absolutely the only reason.

I think if one wishes to change a chat account, the user should be forced to end the present
chat (or just leave it hanging) and start a more appropriate chat with a different account.
I don't see having multiple chat tabs open as any disadvantage.
*In my opinion, it should not be permitted to change an account on the fly once
a chat has been established.* Therefore the "send via" drop down should not appear
in established chat windows.

[snip]

Earl

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#16

Yana,

I saw no error msg. Is the error msg generated internally in SC?

I would prefer to see an internal interception by SC to prevent any
SIP chat window from opening if the partner is offline. SC could
generate an internal error msg:
sorry, your SIP partner is offline, try later.

Better to do this internally, rather than rely on a server somewhere on
a network to do it.

Regards, Earl

Yana Stamcheva wrote:

···

Hi Earl,

On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Earl wrote:

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and received
when in fact this is an impossibility.
    
Actually we're already handling this one. When you try to send your message you should get an error in the chat window looking like this:

"me at 10:34:19
[your_message]
The above message could not be delivered ......"

Have you seen something like that ? If not, could you please check if your server respond with an error to the message.

Cheers,
Yana

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.

Earl

Earl wrote:
    

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

The "send via" does not show correctly because what it really shows is
"receiving from".
It does not allow choosing which account to send from.

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

Earl

>
On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

  linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
  michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
  electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,
  Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
  Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

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#17

Good morning Yana and *,

Hi Earl, Michelle,

Just committed a quick fix to show the current account we're chatting
with. It's now shown in the tooltip of the "Send via" box and in the
drop down near the contact (r6661).

When is the build ready? :smiley:

I agree it could be a good idea to have this information more
accessible (as in Pidgin), because it seems a little hidden and not
very intuitive with the "send via" box right now. However I still
think we should keep the information about who we're chatting with. I
also find it important to be able to change your account / destination
contact while in a conversation. I personally have quite a lot merged
(combined) contacts, where I have two sub-contacts coming from the
same account and when chatting with such "meta contacts" I do need to
distinguish the specific contact I'm chatting with. I want also to be
able to change it, for example if I know that the guy on the other
side prefers to receive certain messages on it's private account and
not it's professional one.

1+

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

signature.pgp (189 Bytes)

···

Am 2010-01-21 10:28:39, schrieb Yana Stamcheva:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193


#18

Hi Yana,

I wondered what these sub-contacts were, thanks for explaining.
I have always put Bob_Work, Bob_Home, and Bob_Traveling into
completely separate contacts.

My wish would be to display who I am and who I am chatting with
in the blue bar at the top of the chat window.
One idea would be to display my chat partner on the left, space,
me: my present chat account
for example:

John_Work@abc.net me: Earl_Home@xyz.com

One quick glance at the blue bar and all is clear.

Regards, Earl

Yana Stamcheva wrote:

···

Hi Earl, Michelle,

Just committed a quick fix to show the current account we're chatting with. It's now shown in the tooltip of the "Send via" box and in the drop down near the contact (r6661).

I agree it could be a good idea to have this information more accessible (as in Pidgin), because it seems a little hidden and not very intuitive with the "send via" box right now. However I still think we should keep the information about who we're chatting with. I also find it important to be able to change your account / destination contact while in a conversation. I personally have quite a lot merged (combined) contacts, where I have two sub-contacts coming from the same account and when chatting with such "meta contacts" I do need to distinguish the specific contact I'm chatting with. I want also to be able to change it, for example if I know that the guy on the other side prefers to receive certain messages on it's private account and not it's professional one.

Cheers,
Yana

On Jan 20, 2010, at 6:04 PM, Earl wrote:

Michelle,

[snip]
    

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?
   

Absolutely not...

I suggest that the drop down "send via" be removed from *established* chat
windows. The blue bar at the top should be long enough to hold the IDs
of both chat partners. This would change as different chat tabs were clicked.
    

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?
   

Hmmm, -- maybe you have the same Partner and communicating over non-
encrypted crappy ICQ and want to switch to encrypted Jabber?

This would be absolutely the only reason.

I think if one wishes to change a chat account, the user should be forced to end the present
chat (or just leave it hanging) and start a more appropriate chat with a different account.
I don't see having multiple chat tabs open as any disadvantage.
*In my opinion, it should not be permitted to change an account on the fly once
a chat has been established.* Therefore the "send via" drop down should not appear
in established chat windows.

[snip]

Earl
    
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#19

addition: this assumes that SIP presence is functioning well both
at server and at endpoint.
SIP presence is not instantaneously transmitted over the
network. Someone can go offline and there may be a
delay before the endpoint knows this.
So maybe letting the SIP server generate the error msg
is the best ???
This may be a problem that can not be solved in a 100%
satisfactory manner, since maybe SIP messaging is itself
not 100%. SIP messaging may have fundamental errors
in its conception?? An older server may not be aware
of this problem and therefore not generate the error
msg.

Do you know the number of the error msg which should
be sent from the SIP server, in case of someone being
offline and a msg sent ?

If my SIP client does not display this error msg, then I
need to do a packet trace.

Regards, Earl

Earl wrote:

···

Yana,

I saw no error msg. Is the error msg generated internally in SC?

I would prefer to see an internal interception by SC to prevent any
SIP chat window from opening if the partner is offline. SC could
generate an internal error msg:
sorry, your SIP partner is offline, try later.

Better to do this internally, rather than rely on a server somewhere on
a network to do it.

Regards, Earl

Yana Stamcheva wrote:

Hi Earl,

On Jan 20, 2010, at 4:12 PM, Earl wrote:

Another thing to consider is that SIP messages are not store and forward
for offline recipients. If I send a SIP msg to someone offline, a new tabbed
window opens up and I can "send" a msg. However, this msg will never
arrive. Thus the user is tricked into thinking the msg was sent and received
when in fact this is an impossibility.
    
Actually we're already handling this one. When you try to send your message you should get an error in the chat window looking like this:

"me at 10:34:19
[your_message]
The above message could not be delivered ......"

Have you seen something like that ? If not, could you please check if your server respond with an error to the message.

Cheers,
Yana

SC should *not* permit this for SIP. With Jabber/XMPP this is no problem
since XMPP does store in the server and forward.

Earl

Earl wrote:
   

Hi Michelle, hi Yana, hi All,

I noticed this, but did not comment about it until now.

The "send via" does not show correctly because what it really shows is
"receiving from".
It does not allow choosing which account to send from.

Does it make any sense to keep a "send via" drop down in an
established IM chat window ?

Why would it be necessary to change sending account during an
*established* IM chat?

If the sending account is changed during an OTR-secured chat, it would
probably cause a big crash.

Earl

>
On the left of the send button you have the "Send via" box, which shows you the the contact you're currently chatting with (in the case of merged contacts you could select from the box the one you prefer). This identifies easily the protocol and then the account would be the one that contains this specific contact. For now we don't specifically show the account, which I agree could be useful.

It show the account name of the Partner but not your own... It seems a
bug to me, because if I have the message window OPEN I have the titlebar
andthe TABS which tell e with WHO I am chating. So, the "Send via"
button schow me the sae name. it should show MY ACCOUNT I am using.

I have for example:

  linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
  michelle.konzac@jabber.ccc.de
  electronica@jabber.ccc.de

and as you may see they have a special meaning. But if you know all 3
contacts and contact me, I see, you contacted me, but which of my
accounts are active.

In Pidging I see,
  Buddy: sombody@jabber.example.com
  Account: linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de

here it is hear, but not in SIP Communicator

However, even if I have a bunch of account On-Line, it never showed me
more the one option in the "Send via" button.

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#20

Hello,

Yana,

I saw no error msg. Is the error msg generated internally in SC?

I would prefer to see an internal interception by SC to prevent any
SIP chat window from opening if the partner is offline. SC could
generate an internal error msg:
sorry, your SIP partner is offline, try later.

Or you can do the sae as Pidgin, store the meassage local and send it if
the Partner goes online. I use it for MSN.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Electronic Engineer
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

signature.pgp (189 Bytes)

···

Am 2010-01-21 11:10:04, schrieb Earl:

--
Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
<http://www.tamay-dogan.net/> Michelle Konzack
<http://www.can4linux.org/> Apt. 917
<http://www.flexray4linux.org/> 50, rue de Soultz
Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de 67100 Strabourg/France
IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) Tel. DE: +49 177 9351947
ICQ #328449886 Tel. FR: +33 6 61925193