[sip-comm-dev] SIP Integrity Protection + Public key management + OTR


#1

Hello all,

We need key management for OTR
(http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Protocol-v2-3.1.0.html > "Authenticated
Key Exchange" and "Public keys, signatures, and fingerprints"). More
specifically we need
a) generate private keys
b) verify public key via fingerprints
that will look something like this:
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ubuntu-install/otr-setup.html

To my understanding, ZRTP does not rely on a PKI, but can use a PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki). Also future integrity protection
to the delivery of SIP information will rely on PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki).

Finally my question is, do we have a way to manage priv/pub keys in SIP
Communicator?

George.

···

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#2

Is it really necessary to use a PKI infrastructure (certificates,
key stores and alike) to use OTR?

Introducing a PKI infrastructure complicates the overall handling
of OTR messaging. Nobody, except a handful of IT experts, understand
what a certificate is, how to deal with it etc etc.

AFAIK SC is not targeted to these IT experts only.

As you stated ZRTP does not depend on PKI, it will never depend on
PKI, and it will not use it. The full FAQ answer makes this very
clear and leaves no room for interpretation. The whole PKI discussion
inside ZRTP addresses requirements of real big organizations that have
PKI (for their internal security) already in place and wish to re-use
the certificates for some additional authentication.

I had several discussion with Phil Zimmermann about this topic.

Regards,
Werner

Geekius Caesar schrieb:

···

Hello all,

We need key management for OTR
(http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Protocol-v2-3.1.0.html > "Authenticated
Key Exchange" and "Public keys, signatures, and fingerprints"). More
specifically we need
a) generate private keys
b) verify public key via fingerprints
that will look something like this:
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ubuntu-install/otr-setup.html

To my understanding, ZRTP does not rely on a PKI, but can use a PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki). Also future integrity protection
to the delivery of SIP information will rely on PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki).

Finally my question is, do we have a way to manage priv/pub keys in SIP
Communicator?

George.

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#3

Hello Wetter,

OTR will only require a a) way to manage priv/pub keys and b) to verify
pub key of the other party.

I mentioned the PKI infrastructure, because it is the closest thing that
could have been implemented in SC to what we actually need for OTR, I'm
sorry if I wasn't clear enough from the beggining, OTR does not need PKI
infrastructure.

···

On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 18:45 +0200, Werner Dittmann wrote:

Is it really necessary to use a PKI infrastructure (certificates,
key stores and alike) to use OTR?

Introducing a PKI infrastructure complicates the overall handling
of OTR messaging. Nobody, except a handful of IT experts, understand
what a certificate is, how to deal with it etc etc.

AFAIK SC is not targeted to these IT experts only.

As you stated ZRTP does not depend on PKI, it will never depend on
PKI, and it will not use it. The full FAQ answer makes this very
clear and leaves no room for interpretation. The whole PKI discussion
inside ZRTP addresses requirements of real big organizations that have
PKI (for their internal security) already in place and wish to re-use
the certificates for some additional authentication.

I had several discussion with Phil Zimmermann about this topic.

Regards,
Werner

Geekius Caesar schrieb:
> Hello all,
>
> We need key management for OTR
> (http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Protocol-v2-3.1.0.html > "Authenticated
> Key Exchange" and "Public keys, signatures, and fingerprints"). More
> specifically we need
> a) generate private keys
> b) verify public key via fingerprints
> that will look something like this:
> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ubuntu-install/otr-setup.html
>
> To my understanding, ZRTP does not rely on a PKI, but can use a PKI
> (http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki). Also future integrity protection
> to the delivery of SIP information will rely on PKI
> (http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki).
>
> Finally my question is, do we have a way to manage priv/pub keys in SIP
> Communicator?
>
> George.
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@sip-communicator.dev.java.net
>
>

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#4

George,

some comment ant remarks inline.

Geekius Caesar schrieb:

Hello Wetter,

OTR will only require a a) way to manage priv/pub keys and b) to verify
pub key of the other party.

Own priv/pub key: using self signed certificates? What type and strength
of the public key algorithm would we use here?

To manage this and to store the partners' certificates we could use
the bouncycastle (BC) keystore implementation or the Sun keystore stuff.
This depends on the used public key algorithm we will use (I usually prefer
the BC implementation).

As a general guideline: if we use strong crypto (keys > 128bit for most
symmetrical algorithms, AFAIK >1024bit for asymmetric) we should not
use the standard Java JCE but use the BC lightwight stuff. This way
we avoid the problems to install the JCE policy files. Only the superuser
or admin can install these and this would complicate the installation of SC.
I did that already for ZRTP / SRTP when using strong encryption.

Regards,
Werner

···

I mentioned the PKI infrastructure, because it is the closest thing that
could have been implemented in SC to what we actually need for OTR, I'm
sorry if I wasn't clear enough from the beggining, OTR does not need PKI
infrastructure.

On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 18:45 +0200, Werner Dittmann wrote:

Is it really necessary to use a PKI infrastructure (certificates,
key stores and alike) to use OTR?

Introducing a PKI infrastructure complicates the overall handling
of OTR messaging. Nobody, except a handful of IT experts, understand
what a certificate is, how to deal with it etc etc.

AFAIK SC is not targeted to these IT experts only.

As you stated ZRTP does not depend on PKI, it will never depend on
PKI, and it will not use it. The full FAQ answer makes this very
clear and leaves no room for interpretation. The whole PKI discussion
inside ZRTP addresses requirements of real big organizations that have
PKI (for their internal security) already in place and wish to re-use
the certificates for some additional authentication.

I had several discussion with Phil Zimmermann about this topic.

Regards,
Werner

Geekius Caesar schrieb:

Hello all,

We need key management for OTR
(http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Protocol-v2-3.1.0.html > "Authenticated
Key Exchange" and "Public keys, signatures, and fingerprints"). More
specifically we need
a) generate private keys
b) verify public key via fingerprints
that will look something like this:
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/ubuntu-install/otr-setup.html

To my understanding, ZRTP does not rely on a PKI, but can use a PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki). Also future integrity protection
to the delivery of SIP information will rely on PKI
(http://zfoneproject.com/faq.html#pki).

Finally my question is, do we have a way to manage priv/pub keys in SIP
Communicator?

George.

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