[sip-comm-dev] Show or hide toolbar


#1

Hello,

I just commit a little new feature for the chat window. I added a new
menu to show or hide the toolbars in the chat window.

It's for those who are minimalist.

The current version only hide the two buttons (history and
configuration). I wonder whether it would be better to hide the panel
above the text (contact icon, ...). I also want to add options to hide
the send button and the "send via" selector.

What do you think ?

Bye
Damien

···

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#2

Awesome!!!

Which reminds me that we may want to mark an issue started and assign
it to ourselves when we start working on it. For example, I wanted to
start working on the format bar hiding today and it was more or less a
chance that we didn't duplicate our effort. WDYT?

Again, awesome work, Damien. Thank you!

Regards,
Lubo

···

On 3/25/09, Damien Roth <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I just commit a little new feature for the chat window. I added a new
menu to show or hide the toolbars in the chat window.

It's for those who are minimalist.

The current version only hide the two buttons (history and
configuration). I wonder whether it would be better to hide the panel
above the text (contact icon, ...). I also want to add options to hide
the send button and the "send via" selector.

What do you think ?

Bye
Damien

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#3

Damien Roth написа:

Hello,

Hi Damien,

I just commit a little new feature for the chat window. I added a new
menu to show or hide the toolbars in the chat window.

+1

It's for those who are minimalist.

The current version only hide the two buttons (history and
configuration). I wonder whether it would be better to hide the panel
above the text (contact icon, ...). I also want to add options to hide
the send button and the "send via" selector.

What do you think ?

Great.

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

···

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#4

Hi,

Yeah it's a chance for us, I started to work on it this after noon :slight_smile:

I think it's a good idea. I will add some issues for the ideas I'm working on.

I'm glad you like it.

Bye
Damien

···

2009/3/25 Lubomir Marinov <lubomir.marinov@gmail.com>:

Awesome!!!

Which reminds me that we may want to mark an issue started and assign
it to ourselves when we start working on it. For example, I wanted to
start working on the format bar hiding today and it was more or less a
chance that we didn't duplicate our effort. WDYT?

Again, awesome work, Damien. Thank you!

Regards,
Lubo

On 3/25/09, Damien Roth <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I just commit a little new feature for the chat window. I added a new
menu to show or hide the toolbars in the chat window.

It's for those who are minimalist.

The current version only hide the two buttons (history and
configuration). I wonder whether it would be better to hide the panel
above the text (contact icon, ...). I also want to add options to hide
the send button and the "send via" selector.

What do you think ?

Bye
Damien

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#5

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5 and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about, and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

···

--
Alexander.

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#6

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html

tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

···

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5 and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about, and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#7

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Best regards,
Lubomir

···

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5 and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about, and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#8

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

Well, most applications would keep their keyboard accelerators
regardless of whether or not the corresponding toolbar is showing. I
just checked OpenOffice.org, TextEdit, Microsoft Word, and Adium and
they all behave this way.

I do agree however that having an accelerator combination that is not
referenced anywhere in the UI is not very user friendly and almost feels
like an easter egg. I have therefore created #635 so that we would also
add the formatting actions in the Edit menu.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Agreed. This is a completely different issue and not a simple one at
that. It should definitely go for 2.0. Since it would also be one of the
dependencies for the umbrella issue (#629) we should also reschedule
#629 for 2.0. The rest of its dependencies could stay in rc1 as
previously agreed though.

Damien, would you like to make the change or should I take care of it?

Cheers
Emil

···

Best regards,
Lubomir

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5 and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about, and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#9

The point of my post was that the shortcuts should only be kept if their associated commands are available anywhere else in the ui e.g. the menu. Windows Vista-style apps may leave the wrong impression because their menu may not be visible by default, yet it's there e.g. upon pressing Alt. The mentioned examples are keeping the shortcuts active because the menues have them and it's only our fault that we are not making all our actions in the menues.

Accelerators are a different subject because they are the underlined chars on the controls.

···

On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> wrote:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

Well, most applications would keep their keyboard accelerators
regardless of whether or not the corresponding toolbar is showing. I
just checked OpenOffice.org, TextEdit, Microsoft Word, and Adium and
they all behave this way.

I do agree however that having an accelerator combination that is not
referenced anywhere in the UI is not very user friendly and almost feels
like an easter egg. I have therefore created #635 so that we would also
add the formatting actions in the Edit menu.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Agreed. This is a completely different issue and not a simple one at
that. It should definitely go for 2.0. Since it would also be one of the
dependencies for the umbrella issue (#629) we should also reschedule
#629 for 2.0. The rest of its dependencies could stay in rc1 as
previously agreed though.

Damien, would you like to make the change or should I take care of it?

Cheers
Emil

Best regards,
Lubomir

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth >> <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5 and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about, and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#10

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

The point of my post was that the shortcuts should only be kept if
their associated commands are available anywhere else in the ui e.g.
the menu.

OK, seems like we agree then.

Windows Vista-style apps may leave the wrong impression
because their menu may not be visible by default, yet it's there e.g.
upon pressing Alt. The mentioned examples are keeping the shortcuts
active because the menues have them and it's only our fault that we
are not making all our actions in the menues.

Absolutely, and this is why we now have #635.

Accelerators are a different subject because they are the underlined
chars on the controls.

I believe you are referring to mnemonics here. If so, then yes, they are
indeed a different subject. I did mean accelerators though :).

Cheers
Emil

···

On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> > wrote:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not
work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

Well, most applications would keep their keyboard accelerators
regardless of whether or not the corresponding toolbar is showing. I
just checked OpenOffice.org, TextEdit, Microsoft Word, and Adium and
they all behave this way.

I do agree however that having an accelerator combination that is not
referenced anywhere in the UI is not very user friendly and almost
feels
like an easter egg. I have therefore created #635 so that we would
also
add the formatting actions in the Edit menu.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Agreed. This is a completely different issue and not a simple one at
that. It should definitely go for 2.0. Since it would also be one of
the
dependencies for the umbrella issue (#629) we should also reschedule
#629 for 2.0. The rest of its dependencies could stay in rc1 as
previously agreed though.

Damien, would you like to make the change or should I take care of it?

Cheers
Emil

Best regards,
Lubomir

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth >>> <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and
RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely
related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?
id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The
reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the
java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5
and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and
modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some
of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these
issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new
feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the
requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature
closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new
features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about,
and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a
mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are
really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues
back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific
modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in
order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to
keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#11

Hi,

Ok, I'm going to change the target milestone for the 629 meta-issue.

I will start working on the menu items, but I don't know if it's a
good idea to use checkboxitems in a menu. To keep the example of
OpenOffice (french versin), to set the text style to bold I can either
use CTRL+G (maybe CTRL+B in the english version) or use a menuitem to
display the format dialog.

But on the other hand, this system can leads the user to a mistake :
setting the format for the whole write field like Pidgin or Windows
Live Messenger (without the plus add-on).

What do you prefer : a format dialog or one menuitem for each button
of the style toolbar ?

Bye
Damien

···

2009/3/28 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

The point of my post was that the shortcuts should only be kept if
their associated commands are available anywhere else in the ui e.g.
the menu.

OK, seems like we agree then.

Windows Vista-style apps may leave the wrong impression
because their menu may not be visible by default, yet it's there e.g.
upon pressing Alt. The mentioned examples are keeping the shortcuts
active because the menues have them and it's only our fault that we
are not making all our actions in the menues.

Absolutely, and this is why we now have #635.

Accelerators are a different subject because they are the underlined
chars on the controls.

I believe you are referring to mnemonics here. If so, then yes, they are
indeed a different subject. I did mean accelerators though :).

Cheers
Emil

On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> >> wrote:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not
work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

Well, most applications would keep their keyboard accelerators
regardless of whether or not the corresponding toolbar is showing. I
just checked OpenOffice.org, TextEdit, Microsoft Word, and Adium and
they all behave this way.

I do agree however that having an accelerator combination that is not
referenced anywhere in the UI is not very user friendly and almost
feels
like an easter egg. I have therefore created #635 so that we would
also
add the formatting actions in the Edit menu.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Agreed. This is a completely different issue and not a simple one at
that. It should definitely go for 2.0. Since it would also be one of
the
dependencies for the umbrella issue (#629) we should also reschedule
#629 for 2.0. The rest of its dependencies could stay in rc1 as
previously agreed though.

Damien, would you like to make the change or should I take care of it?

Cheers
Emil

Best regards,
Lubomir

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth >>>> <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and
RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely
related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?
id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The
reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the
java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5
and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and
modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some
of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these
issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new
feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the
requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature
closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new
features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about,
and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a
mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are
really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues
back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific
modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in
order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to
keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#12

Hey Damien,

Damien Roth wrote:

Hi,

Ok, I'm going to change the target milestone for the 629 meta-issue.

I will start working on the menu items, but I don't know if it's a
good idea to use checkboxitems in a menu. To keep the example of
OpenOffice (french versin), to set the text style to bold I can either
use CTRL+G (maybe CTRL+B in the english version) or use a menuitem to
display the format dialog.

But on the other hand, this system can leads the user to a mistake :
setting the format for the whole write field like Pidgin or Windows
Live Messenger (without the plus add-on).

What do you prefer : a format dialog or one menuitem for each button
of the style toolbar ?

Oh yes, I hadn't thought about the format dialog but I guess it would be
even better and easier to implement.

Unless anyone would have an objection, you can go ahead and make add the
menu item.

Cheers
Emil

···

Bye
Damien

2009/3/28 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

The point of my post was that the shortcuts should only be kept if
their associated commands are available anywhere else in the ui e.g.
the menu.

OK, seems like we agree then.

Windows Vista-style apps may leave the wrong impression
because their menu may not be visible by default, yet it's there e.g.
upon pressing Alt. The mentioned examples are keeping the shortcuts
active because the menues have them and it's only our fault that we
are not making all our actions in the menues.

Absolutely, and this is why we now have #635.

Accelerators are a different subject because they are the underlined
chars on the controls.

I believe you are referring to mnemonics here. If so, then yes, they are
indeed a different subject. I did mean accelerators though :).

Cheers
Emil

On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> >>> wrote:

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

Hi Damien,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your statement about your
preference here. Anyway, I just want to share my opinion that if the
toolbar isn't visible, I'd personally expect the shortcuts to not
work
as well because these commands in the tool bar don't have
representations in the menu i.e. I'd personally be confused if the
shortcuts to these commands would continue to work when I hide the
formatting tool bar.

Well, most applications would keep their keyboard accelerators
regardless of whether or not the corresponding toolbar is showing. I
just checked OpenOffice.org, TextEdit, Microsoft Word, and Adium and
they all behave this way.

I do agree however that having an accelerator combination that is not
referenced anywhere in the UI is not very user friendly and almost
feels
like an easter egg. I have therefore created #635 so that we would
also
add the formatting actions in the Edit menu.

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.

I totally agree. Besides, the fact that I send formatted text doesn't
necessarily mean that I'd like to see the possibly weird formatting
I'm being sent. (I personally badly need to be able to turn off
incoming formatting.)

Agreed. This is a completely different issue and not a simple one at
that. It should definitely go for 2.0. Since it would also be one of
the
dependencies for the umbrella issue (#629) we should also reschedule
#629 for 2.0. The rest of its dependencies could stay in rc1 as
previously agreed though.

Damien, would you like to make the change or should I take care of it?

Cheers
Emil

Best regards,
Lubomir

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Damien Roth >>>>> <damien.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Concerning Alex issue number 548, I prefer mark it as fixed.
It's not because I don't want to see the toolbar that I don't want
to
format my text (using only the shortcuts).

The second point of the issue : "Also display all incoming text
without formatting", should be placed in a new issue.
From my point of view, it's more complicated. Simply remove the html
tags will make the message unreadable, especially for the Dict and
RSS
protocols.

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

2009/3/26 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Alex,

Alexander Todorov wrote:

Here are two issues I've opened earlier which are closely
related. You may wish
to track progress there:

RFE: Hide text formatting:
buttonshttps://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?
id=548

RFE: Add option to hide/show Send button:
https://sip-communicator.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=549

Indeed. There is something that we need to clarify first though.

We are currently preparing to spin our 1.0 branch off trunk. The
reason
we haven't done this already is because we are waiting for the
java.net
upgrade (rescheduled for April 27) as it would come with svn 1.5
and
hence simplify merge tracking between the two branches.

Until we actually make the branch we are trying to remain extremely
conservative about new features. Once we have the 1.0 branch we'd
completely open up trunk for all kinds of additions and
modifications.
At that point we would be able to even consider backporting some
of the
most popular features from trunk to 1.0 if we agree they are stable
enough and important for our first release.

This is the reason why when Alex originally submitted these
issues I
moved them to 2.0.

However (and this is going to be one of the only exceptions),
considering that the minimalistic interface is not exactly a new
feature
and is more of an enhancement, and having in mind all the
requests we've
been getting about it (both on and off list), I would be willing to
bring part of the work back into 1.0 (currently trunk).

Again, note this is only an exception and we remain feature
closed until
we branch. In other words please sit on your super cool new
features a
bit longer. After all, it's only a month we are talking about,
and the
stake is the stability that we need in order to be perceived as a
mature
application.

So, now that this has been said, Damien, your additions are
really cool!
Thanks for doing the work! Could you please move Alex's to issues
back
to rc1 and mark the first one (#548) as started?

I'd also like us to create new entires for all specific
modifications
related to the minimalistic interface that you have in mind in
order to
a) better track their completion and b) have the possibility to
keep
part of them for 2.0.

We could keep the issue you entered yourself (#629 I believe) as an
umbrella meta issue but in this case we'd need to note all its
dependencies to the individual entries.

How does this sound?

Cheers
Emil

--
Alexander.

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#13

Hi,

Ok I start immediatly.

Another question, while looking for a way to hide the toolbar, I
noticed that there was an extended version of the toolbar. There is a
boolean ("impl.gui.IS_TOOLBAR_EXTENDED") used to switch between the
two, but I havn't found where the user can change the value of this
boolean.

Have I missed something?

···

2009/3/28 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Damien,

Damien Roth wrote:

Hi,

Ok, I'm going to change the target milestone for the 629 meta-issue.

I will start working on the menu items, but I don't know if it's a
good idea to use checkboxitems in a menu. To keep the example of
OpenOffice (french versin), to set the text style to bold I can either
use CTRL+G (maybe CTRL+B in the english version) or use a menuitem to
display the format dialog.

But on the other hand, this system can leads the user to a mistake :
setting the format for the whole write field like Pidgin or Windows
Live Messenger (without the plus add-on).

What do you prefer : a format dialog or one menuitem for each button
of the style toolbar ?

Oh yes, I hadn't thought about the format dialog but I guess it would be
even better and easier to implement.

Unless anyone would have an objection, you can go ahead and make add the
menu item.

Cheers
Emil

Bye
Damien

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