[sip-comm-dev] [Minimalistic interface] New font dialog


#1

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien


#2

Hey Damien,

I have the impression that I already wrote a mail on the subject but
couldn't find it in my "sent mail" so am sending it again (apologieis if
this turns out to be a duplicate).

Saw your new "Font" dialog and liked it very much! Good job!

One minor comment though. Wouldn't it be better to add it inside the
"Edit" rather than the tools menu?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

···

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

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#3

Hi Emil,

Thanks.

I don't think so. This dialog is a tool to set the font family, size ...
another point, if a software use this type of dialog (the gimp,
openoffice, msoffice) it's placed in the "tools" or "format" menu.

That's why the tools menu and not the edit menu.
The edit menu contains most of the time : undo (redo), cut, copy, past
actions. Personally, I won't look for this dialog in this menu.

Bye

Damien

···

2009/4/7 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Damien,

I have the impression that I already wrote a mail on the subject but
couldn't find it in my "sent mail" so am sending it again (apologieis if
this turns out to be a duplicate).

Saw your new "Font" dialog and liked it very much! Good job!

One minor comment though. Wouldn't it be better to add it inside the
"Edit" rather than the tools menu?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

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#4

Hey Damien,

The reason why the Font menu would fit better in edit is simply because
changing the font of the text you are currently editing is part of the
editing itself. In the case of SIP Communicator this is not related to a
particular tool (as we don't have any at this time), and it's not a
configuration setting either. It is exclusively bound to editing.

I just checked out the applications you quote and they all have the
Font/Character manipulation dialog in their Format menu. The only
exception is GIMP which has a configuration dialog for its "Text" tool
in the Tools menu.

Now, this definitely makes sense for GIMP as it is designed around the
notion of tools such as brush, eraser, magnifier and others including
"Text". Configuration of such "Tools" should definitely go to their
Tools menu.

We, however are in a completely different situation. In our case
modifying the font of an outgoing message is part of the editing process
just as it is with most document editors. The fact that applications
like OpenOffice and MS Office would have it in a Format menu is not a
contradiction. "Format"ing is also part of the editing but text
processors need to have it as a separate menu as there are too much
items in it to merge them with "Edit", and they are used way too often
to make the whole Format menu a submenu of Edit which it logically is.

In our case we only have three items there (Cut, Copy, and Paste) so
adding an extra one should be OK.

If it really feels unnatural to you and others then maybe we should
create a Format menu. This would also be a good occasion to make actions
like "Bold", "Italic", "Underline" and other formatting also available
directly inside it in addition to the toolbar and the Font dialog.

What you think? Others?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

···

Hi Emil,

Thanks.

I don't think so. This dialog is a tool to set the font family, size ...
another point, if a software use this type of dialog (the gimp,
openoffice, msoffice) it's placed in the "tools" or "format" menu.

That's why the tools menu and not the edit menu.
The edit menu contains most of the time : undo (redo), cut, copy, past
actions. Personally, I won't look for this dialog in this menu.

Bye

Damien

2009/4/7 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Damien,

I have the impression that I already wrote a mail on the subject but
couldn't find it in my "sent mail" so am sending it again (apologieis if
this turns out to be a duplicate).

Saw your new "Font" dialog and liked it very much! Good job!

One minor comment though. Wouldn't it be better to add it inside the
"Edit" rather than the tools menu?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

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#5

Hi guys,

Just to throw in my opinion in case it turns out it's of any use.

I personally find it unintuitive to look for the formatting buttons in
the Tools menu. I just don't seem to associate formatting a chat
message with tools and when I read/hear Tools, the things that pop to
mind are Options, external tools, plug-ins...

I'm not bothered too much that we may not have our formatting appear
in the same locations as it appears in GIMP, OpenOffice.org and
Microsoft Office - for what it's worth, SIP Communicator is neither an
image editing program, nor a word processor i.e. the expectations of
the users will be (slightly) different anyway because of the different
purposes of the software itself.

After seeing the discussion here I did check Windows Live Messenger
and Apple iChat and the former has a menu item in the Edit menu to set
the font characteristics while the latter, of course, has the Format
menu dedicated to all things related to formatting messages. I think
we should rather check other IM and VoIP software applications rather
than word processors and image manipulation programs because we should
be meeting the expectations of IM and VoIP users.

Anyway, just my opinion...

Regards,
Lubo

···

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> wrote:

Hey Damien,

The reason why the Font menu would fit better in edit is simply because
changing the font of the text you are currently editing is part of the
editing itself. In the case of SIP Communicator this is not related to a
particular tool (as we don't have any at this time), and it's not a
configuration setting either. It is exclusively bound to editing.

I just checked out the applications you quote and they all have the
Font/Character manipulation dialog in their Format menu. The only
exception is GIMP which has a configuration dialog for its "Text" tool
in the Tools menu.

Now, this definitely makes sense for GIMP as it is designed around the
notion of tools such as brush, eraser, magnifier and others including
"Text". Configuration of such "Tools" should definitely go to their
Tools menu.

We, however are in a completely different situation. In our case
modifying the font of an outgoing message is part of the editing process
just as it is with most document editors. The fact that applications
like OpenOffice and MS Office would have it in a Format menu is not a
contradiction. "Format"ing is also part of the editing but text
processors need to have it as a separate menu as there are too much
items in it to merge them with "Edit", and they are used way too often
to make the whole Format menu a submenu of Edit which it logically is.

In our case we only have three items there (Cut, Copy, and Paste) so
adding an extra one should be OK.

If it really feels unnatural to you and others then maybe we should
create a Format menu. This would also be a good occasion to make actions
like "Bold", "Italic", "Underline" and other formatting also available
directly inside it in addition to the toolbar and the Font dialog.

What you think? Others?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hi Emil,

Thanks.

I don't think so. This dialog is a tool to set the font family, size ...
another point, if a software use this type of dialog (the gimp,
openoffice, msoffice) it's placed in the "tools" or "format" menu.

That's why the tools menu and not the edit menu.
The edit menu contains most of the time : undo (redo), cut, copy, past
actions. Personally, I won't look for this dialog in this menu.

Bye

Damien

2009/4/7 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Damien,

I have the impression that I already wrote a mail on the subject but
couldn't find it in my "sent mail" so am sending it again (apologieis if
this turns out to be a duplicate).

Saw your new "Font" dialog and liked it very much! Good job!

One minor comment though. Wouldn't it be better to add it inside the
"Edit" rather than the tools menu?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

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#6

Hi guys,

I've checked Adium and they also have a dedicated "Format" menu, including Bold, Italic, etc. items. Otherwise, I agree with Emil and Lubomir that the Font item belongs more to the "Edit" menu than to the "Tools" menu.

In my opinion if we have a single window to configure everything it would fit better in the Edit menu. A dedicated format menu would be more useful if we have separate items for all font operations (e.g. Font names, Size, Colors, Bold, Italic, Underlined, etc.).

Cheers,
Yana

Lubomir Marinov wrote:

···

Hi guys,

Just to throw in my opinion in case it turns out it's of any use.

I personally find it unintuitive to look for the formatting buttons in
the Tools menu. I just don't seem to associate formatting a chat
message with tools and when I read/hear Tools, the things that pop to
mind are Options, external tools, plug-ins...

I'm not bothered too much that we may not have our formatting appear
in the same locations as it appears in GIMP, OpenOffice.org and
Microsoft Office - for what it's worth, SIP Communicator is neither an
image editing program, nor a word processor i.e. the expectations of
the users will be (slightly) different anyway because of the different
purposes of the software itself.

After seeing the discussion here I did check Windows Live Messenger
and Apple iChat and the former has a menu item in the Edit menu to set
the font characteristics while the latter, of course, has the Format
menu dedicated to all things related to formatting messages. I think
we should rather check other IM and VoIP software applications rather
than word processors and image manipulation programs because we should
be meeting the expectations of IM and VoIP users.

Anyway, just my opinion...

Regards,
Lubo

On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org> wrote:

Hey Damien,

The reason why the Font menu would fit better in edit is simply because
changing the font of the text you are currently editing is part of the
editing itself. In the case of SIP Communicator this is not related to a
particular tool (as we don't have any at this time), and it's not a
configuration setting either. It is exclusively bound to editing.

I just checked out the applications you quote and they all have the
Font/Character manipulation dialog in their Format menu. The only
exception is GIMP which has a configuration dialog for its "Text" tool
in the Tools menu.

Now, this definitely makes sense for GIMP as it is designed around the
notion of tools such as brush, eraser, magnifier and others including
"Text". Configuration of such "Tools" should definitely go to their
Tools menu.

We, however are in a completely different situation. In our case
modifying the font of an outgoing message is part of the editing process
just as it is with most document editors. The fact that applications
like OpenOffice and MS Office would have it in a Format menu is not a
contradiction. "Format"ing is also part of the editing but text
processors need to have it as a separate menu as there are too much
items in it to merge them with "Edit", and they are used way too often
to make the whole Format menu a submenu of Edit which it logically is.

In our case we only have three items there (Cut, Copy, and Paste) so
adding an extra one should be OK.

If it really feels unnatural to you and others then maybe we should
create a Format menu. This would also be a good occasion to make actions
like "Bold", "Italic", "Underline" and other formatting also available
directly inside it in addition to the toolbar and the Font dialog.

What you think? Others?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hi Emil,

Thanks.

I don't think so. This dialog is a tool to set the font family, size ...
another point, if a software use this type of dialog (the gimp,
openoffice, msoffice) it's placed in the "tools" or "format" menu.

That's why the tools menu and not the edit menu.
The edit menu contains most of the time : undo (redo), cut, copy, past
actions. Personally, I won't look for this dialog in this menu.

Bye

Damien

2009/4/7 Emil Ivov <emcho@sip-communicator.org>:

Hey Damien,

I have the impression that I already wrote a mail on the subject but
couldn't find it in my "sent mail" so am sending it again (apologieis if
this turns out to be a duplicate).

Saw your new "Font" dialog and liked it very much! Good job!

One minor comment though. Wouldn't it be better to add it inside the
"Edit" rather than the tools menu?

Cheers
Emil

Damien Roth wrote:

Hello,

For the purpose of the minimalistic interface (issue #635), I need to
rewrite the current version of the Font Chooser Dialog. The current
one doesn't allow to underline the text or select the color. (The
other good point is to bring the SIP-Communicator style to the dialog
:p)

The attached screenshot show the current version of the dialog. In the
next version, I will add a textfield above the lists allowing the user
to write his own value (font size) and/or search the value (font
familly).
I would appreciate your advice on two points:
1. It's about the font style : should I leave it under the two lists
or put them in a column (keep the checkboxes) between the font familly
and the font size, to keep a connection with the OS' font chooser
dialog (or OpenOffice Writer, ...).
2. Currently to choose a color, the user need to click on the button
"Select a color" to show the JColorChooser dialog. My idea is to use
only one dialog, so I'm thinking of using tabs : one for the font
(familly, size and style) and one for the color (it's possible to
include the JColorChooser directly).

What do you think ?

Bye

Damien

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