[sip-comm-dev] Hard coded text messages in OtrConfigurationPanel


#1

All,

during some enhancements for the German translation I stumbled over hard coded
text in Misconfiguration. Obviously we cannot translate these using the
resource properties files. George, can you check this? Thanks.

Some rant here:
The new process to handle the translations is cumbersome and requires
additional, IMHO unnecessary, effort during testing, translation and updating.
Yet another login, another server to deal with, another way to update/upload
sources etc etc. Frankly, I don't like it.

To test a new set of translations I have to replace the properties file, test the
translations. Then I need to transform it back into some other format and upload
it to some server which in turn updates (hopefully) the SVN repo. When I now do an
SVN update I always get conflicts and I have to take additional steps to resolve
them. In addition all of translation processing is outside of the normal development
environment. Can we have a more simple process that fits in the usual development
processes (netbeans, eclipse) )

Regards,
Werner

···

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#2

Hey Werner,

На 01.04.10 09:46, Werner Dittmann написа:

Some rant here:
The new process to handle the translations is cumbersome and requires
additional, IMHO unnecessary, effort during testing, translation and updating.
Yet another login, another server to deal with, another way to update/upload
sources etc etc. Frankly, I don't like it.

To test a new set of translations I have to replace the properties file, test the
translations. Then I need to transform it back into some other format and upload
it to some server which in turn updates (hopefully) the SVN repo. When I now do an
SVN update I always get conflicts and I have to take additional steps to resolve
them.

The whole point of this new system is that you don't need to do all
this. You simply log into the server, select your language and it serves
you the words that need translation. You translate them right there in
the web interface and you don't need to worry about anything else. This
is a _huge_ improvement compared to our previous system (which was
actually lack of a system), since it is now extremely easy to find out
if anything needs translation after new strings get added to the code.
Before Pootle, we _never_ really had a complete translation for any
language or at least not for more than a few days, until new strings
were added.

The procedure that Martin explained, with all the uploads and the
conversions was only optional in case someone would explicitly like to
test their translation before uploading it to the server.

It was by no means a mandatory step of the process. Translators are
supposed to do the translation entirely over the web. If unsure how to
translate a specific string, then simply give it your best shot and come
back to it later if necessary.

Also, if you pick multiple languages in your Pootle profile, you'd be
shown existing translations for these languages so that you could use
them as an additional tip when working on the one you are responsible for.

So again, don't bother with the conversions! Do it all through the web!

Cheers,
Emil

···

In addition all of translation processing is outside of the normal development
environment. Can we have a more simple process that fits in the usual development
processes (netbeans, eclipse) )

Regards,
Werner

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--
Emil Ivov, Ph.D. 67000 Strasbourg,
Project Lead France
SIP Communicator
emcho@sip-communicator.org PHONE: +33.1.77.62.43.30
http://sip-communicator.org FAX: +33.1.77.62.47.31

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#3

during some enhancements for the German translation I stumbled over hard coded
text in Misconfiguration. Obviously we cannot translate these using the
resource properties files. George, can you check this? Thanks.

Good day everyone, Hi Werner,

Thank you for reporting the issue, I believe r6948 fixes the problem.
There are some hardcoded messages in otr4j library that get exposed in
SIP Communicator (some error messages); I will take care of them as I
work on otr4j.

Best,
George

···

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#4

Hi Emil,

thanks for the fast response and clarification.

Hey Werner,

The whole point of this new system is that you don't need to do all
this. You simply log into the server, select your language and it serves
you the words that need translation. You translate them right there in
the web interface and you don't need to worry about anything else. This
is a _huge_ improvement compared to our previous system (which was
actually lack of a system), since it is now extremely easy to find out
if anything needs translation after new strings get added to the code.
Before Pootle, we _never_ really had a complete translation for any
language or at least not for more than a few days, until new strings
were added.

The procedure that Martin explained, with all the uploads and the
conversions was only optional in case someone would explicitly like to
test their translation before uploading it to the server.

It was by no means a mandatory step of the process. Translators are
supposed to do the translation entirely over the web. If unsure how to
translate a specific string, then simply give it your best shot and come
back to it later if necessary.

IMHO the procedure explained by Martin is a must: many of the translations
have to be checked if they make sense in the context of the menus, windows,
buttons and other informative text. Just a "plain " translation of the english
sentences or words does not fit. Maybe because of this "straight" translation
I've seen quite some bad translations from English to German. The sentences
or words were translated ok but they did not match the context. In addition
you have to check in the context because of key bindings/short cuts, field
length and layout etc.

Thus I see a problem here just translating without understanding
the real meaning. Otherwise we could use Google to translate the stuff.

Regards,
Werner

···

Am 01.04.2010 12:02, schrieb Emil Ivov:

Also, if you pick multiple languages in your Pootle profile, you'd be
shown existing translations for these languages so that you could use
them as an additional tip when working on the one you are responsible for.

So again, don't bother with the conversions! Do it all through the web!

Cheers,
Emil

In addition all of translation processing is outside of the normal development
environment. Can we have a more simple process that fits in the usual development
processes (netbeans, eclipse) )

Regards,
Werner

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#5

На 01.04.10 16:08, Werner Dittmann написа:

IMHO the procedure explained by Martin is a must: many of the translations
have to be checked if they make sense in the context of the menus, windows,
buttons and other informative text. Just a "plain " translation of the english
sentences or words does not fit. Maybe because of this "straight" translation
I've seen quite some bad translations from English to German. The sentences
or words were translated ok but they did not match the context. In addition
you have to check in the context because of key bindings/short cuts, field
length and layout etc.

Thus I see a problem here just translating without understanding
the real meaning. Otherwise we could use Google to translate the stuff.

This is of course all true, however, without pootle, and with simply
manually synced properties files (which is much simpler than converting
po-s) we've been having extremely poor translations for quite a while.
The point of pootle is to remedy that. I am not saying it's perfect but
it's still a lot better. After all we do have limited resources.

Besides, pootle is in no way preventing people from coming back and
fixing their translation if they notice something wrong. Quite on the
contrary, it allows others, with no developer access, to do the correction.

Cheers,
Emil

···

Regards,
Werner

Also, if you pick multiple languages in your Pootle profile, you'd be
shown existing translations for these languages so that you could use
them as an additional tip when working on the one you are responsible for.

So again, don't bother with the conversions! Do it all through the web!

Cheers,
Emil

In addition all of translation processing is outside of the normal development
environment. Can we have a more simple process that fits in the usual development
processes (netbeans, eclipse) )

Regards,
Werner

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--
Emil Ivov, Ph.D. 67000 Strasbourg,
Project Lead France
SIP Communicator
emcho@sip-communicator.org PHONE: +33.1.77.62.43.30
http://sip-communicator.org FAX: +33.1.77.62.47.31

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#6

Yesterday I did quite some updates to the German translation, worked
thru the procedures etc. At the end I uploaded to resulting de.po file
to pootle. Pootle somewhow reports 100% translated (BTW it reported
this also when there were about 20 original untranslated messages).
Until now nothing has happend - who triggers a conversion to properties
and the checkin into SC SVN? Is this a automatic process? The docu
on the pootle site is sparse (compared to SC good developer docu). The
one page Howto is next to nothing

The pootle online page shows a lot of suggestions (for German at least)
- who is responsible to prcess these? How can a suggestion acknowledged,
revised or discarded? By whom? Again, no docu on the pootle site.

На 01.04.10 16:08, Werner Dittmann написа:

......

So again, don't bother with the conversions! Do it all through the web!

I don't agree here - doing it all thru the Web seems to cause too much delay
(see my notes above) until the whole cycle:

translate via Web IF - updating SC SVN - SVN update local files - testing -
fixing via Web IF

is fast and non-intrusive

Regards,
Werner

···

Am 01.04.2010 16:44, schrieb Emil Ivov:

Cheers,
Emil

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#7

Hey Werner,

На 01.04.10 20:46, Werner Dittmann написа:

Yesterday I did quite some updates to the German translation, worked
thru the procedures etc. At the end I uploaded to resulting de.po file
to pootle. Pootle somewhow reports 100% translated

I am not sure why this is happening. Could it be that the English
strings somehow got into the German properties file?

(BTW it reported
this also when there were about 20 original untranslated messages).
Until now nothing has happend - who triggers a conversion to properties
and the checkin into SC SVN?

When I log in on Pootle, I select SIP Communicator, then click on a
language. I then have a "Translation" (or sth similar) tab when I click
on it I see the "language.po" file and right underneath it I see a
"Commit to VCS" link. I don't know who has the right to use this link so
I've just given you administrator privileges on Pootle so you should now
have it too.

The pootle online page shows a lot of suggestions (for German at least)
- who is responsible to prcess these? How can a suggestion acknowledged,
revised or discarded? By whom? Again, no docu on the pootle site.

If you weren't able to handle them before, you could try again, should
probably work with your admin privileges.

So again, don't bother with the conversions! Do it all through the web!

I don't agree here - doing it all thru the Web seems to cause too much delay
(see my notes above) until the whole cycle:

translate via Web IF - updating SC SVN - SVN update local files - testing -
fixing via Web IF

Well now as soon as you click on to "Commit to VCS" button you should
have them online. If committing is only reserved to admins then I guess
others could do the translations online and then download the .po files
and convert them to properties if they need to test and don't want to
wait for a build.

I seem to recall that Martin mentioned the pootle guys were planning on
adding native .properties support so this process should become easier
in the future.

Again I agree Pootle is probably not perfect as it is but it is a lot
better than what we used to have. Besides I am thinking that we are
probably not doing everything right yet so please, let's all be patient
until we get to know Pootle.

Of course if anyone has a suggestion for a better solution then please
speak up. In any case, keep in mind that when we installed Pootle _all_
languages were dwindling between around 25% and 30% and we didn't even
_know_ this, so I really don't think that going back to simply "no
pootle" is a good idea.

Cheers,
Emil

···

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