[jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?


#1

Calls on the LAN work. But calls from and to the Internet do not.

My XMPP server is OpenFire 3.8.2 running behind a router. The machine's NIC is assigned 2 IPs.
Port 5222 is NATed to both internal IPs, as well as the STUN ports 3478/3479.
STUN server's external IP is added to Accounts/ICE/Additional STUN servers where the settings are as follows:

Use ICE checked off
Use Google's Jingle/ICE unchecked
Use Upnp checked off
Auto discover unchecked
Use Jitsi's STUN server unchecked

Whether calls originate from the LAN or from Internet, the calling Jitsi displays 'Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)' error while Jitsi being called displays 'Call canceled by remote' error.

What other ports do I need to NAT or what other settings do I need to make so that Internet users can call the LAN users and vice versa?

Thank you
Alex


#2

I think that have the same error...I can not do calls, but if the receipt...('Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)')

jistsi stable 2.4 in Debian jessie

Use ICE checked yes
Use Google's Jingle/ICE checked
Use Upnp checked on
Auto discover checked
Use Jitsi's STUN server checked

···

El jue 16 ene 2014 18:13:57 CET, Alex Malmyguine escribió:

Calls on the LAN work. But calls from and to the Internet do not.

My XMPP server is OpenFire 3.8.2 running behind a router. The machine's NIC is assigned 2 IPs.
Port 5222 is NATed to both internal IPs, as well as the STUN ports 3478/3479.
STUN server's external IP is added to Accounts/ICE/Additional STUN servers where the settings are as follows:

Use ICE checked off
Use Google's Jingle/ICE unchecked
Use Upnp checked off
Auto discover unchecked
Use Jitsi's STUN server unchecked

Whether calls originate from the LAN or from Internet, the calling Jitsi displays 'Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)' error while Jitsi being called displays 'Call canceled by remote' error.

What other ports do I need to NAT or what other settings do I need to make so that Internet users can call the LAN users and vice versa?

Thank you
Alex

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Peatón crispado en busca de la libertad.
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Sígueme, si quieres, en https://joindiaspora.com/u/susocomesanha
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#3

I was getting the same error when I tried making/receiving voice calls
to my brother last week as well. I haven't tried since as I don't
really know what I'm supposed to do to fix it. We're both using Comodo
firewall and Jitsi has a rule to allow all traffic. Do I need to set
port forwards on both our routers as well? I hope not as that's a bit
involved for the average user, who's likely to run back to Skype if it
doesn't just work.

I haven't changed any of those options from the defaults for my
ch3kr.net account, which are all currently checked but I'm not running
my own XMPP or STUN server.

Regards
Derek

···

On 16 January 2014 17:23, Suso comesanha (Openmailbox) <susocomesanha@openmailbox.org> wrote:

El jue 16 ene 2014 18:13:57 CET, Alex Malmyguine escribió:

Calls on the LAN work. But calls from and to the Internet do not.

My XMPP server is OpenFire 3.8.2 running behind a router. The machine's
NIC is assigned 2 IPs.
Port 5222 is NATed to both internal IPs, as well as the STUN ports
3478/3479.
STUN server's external IP is added to Accounts/ICE/Additional STUN servers
where the settings are as follows:

Use ICE checked off
Use Google's Jingle/ICE unchecked
Use Upnp checked off
Auto discover unchecked
Use Jitsi's STUN server unchecked

Whether calls originate from the LAN or from Internet, the calling Jitsi
displays 'Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)' error while Jitsi being
called displays 'Call canceled by remote' error.

What other ports do I need to NAT or what other settings do I need to make
so that Internet users can call the LAN users and vice versa?

Thank you
Alex

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users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

I think that have the same error...I can not do calls, but if the
receipt...('Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)')

jistsi stable 2.4 in Debian jessie

Use ICE checked yes
Use Google's Jingle/ICE checked
Use Upnp checked on
Auto discover checked
Use Jitsi's STUN server checked

--
Suso Comesaña.
Peatón crispado en busca de la libertad.
SIP: susocomesanha@iptel.org
Jabber: susocomesanha@dukgo.com
Sígueme, si quieres, en https://joindiaspora.com/u/susocomesanha
                       https://identi.ca/susobaco

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#4

Switching to Call history and back brings up 'Waiting for authorization' messages for some of the buddies already authorized.
All of them are offline. There are offline buddies for whom this does not happen. The online buddies do not seem to be affected.
Logging off and back or shutting down and restarting Jitsi gets rid of those messages and buttons with exclamation signs.
This can be reproduced every time.

Thank you
Alex


#5

I was getting the same error when I tried making/receiving voice calls
to my brother last week as well. I haven't tried since as I don't
really know what I'm supposed to do to fix it.

I did reply with a suggestion. Did you try that?

http://lists.jitsi.org/pipermail/dev/2014-January/019523.html

We're both using Comodo
firewall and Jitsi has a rule to allow all traffic.

What kind of rule is that exactly? Are you certain that any UDP sent in response to Jitsi packets would arrive back to the client?

Do I need to set
port forwards on both our routers as well?

No.

I hope not as that's a bit
involved for the average user, who's likely to run back to Skype if it
doesn't just work.

I haven't changed any of those options from the defaults for my
ch3kr.net account, which are all currently checked but I'm not running
my own XMPP or STUN server.

You are not expected to. However you XMPP server *is* expected to provide you with a fallback relaying option.

Emil

···

On 16.01.14, 19:30, Derek Moss wrote:

Regards
Derek

On 16 January 2014 17:23, Suso comesanha (Openmailbox) > <susocomesanha@openmailbox.org> wrote:

El jue 16 ene 2014 18:13:57 CET, Alex Malmyguine escribió:

Calls on the LAN work. But calls from and to the Internet do not.

My XMPP server is OpenFire 3.8.2 running behind a router. The machine's
NIC is assigned 2 IPs.
Port 5222 is NATed to both internal IPs, as well as the STUN ports
3478/3479.
STUN server's external IP is added to Accounts/ICE/Additional STUN servers
where the settings are as follows:

Use ICE checked off
Use Google's Jingle/ICE unchecked
Use Upnp checked off
Auto discover unchecked
Use Jitsi's STUN server unchecked

Whether calls originate from the LAN or from Internet, the calling Jitsi
displays 'Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)' error while Jitsi being
called displays 'Call canceled by remote' error.

What other ports do I need to NAT or what other settings do I need to make
so that Internet users can call the LAN users and vice versa?

Thank you
Alex

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

I think that have the same error...I can not do calls, but if the
receipt...('Cannot establish connection (ICE failed)')

jistsi stable 2.4 in Debian jessie

Use ICE checked yes
Use Google's Jingle/ICE checked
Use Upnp checked on
Auto discover checked
Use Jitsi's STUN server checked

--
Suso Comesaña.
Peatón crispado en busca de la libertad.
SIP: susocomesanha@iptel.org
Jabber: susocomesanha@dukgo.com
Sígueme, si quieres, en https://joindiaspora.com/u/susocomesanha
                        https://identi.ca/susobaco

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

--
https://jitsi.org


#6

I was getting the same error when I tried making/receiving voice calls
to my brother last week as well. I haven't tried since as I don't
really know what I'm supposed to do to fix it.

I did reply with a suggestion. Did you try that?

http://lists.jitsi.org/pipermail/dev/2014-January/019523.html

No, sorry. I remembered you said something about checking we could
send/receive UDP but wasn't sure how to do that. I forgot you
suggested trying a Jitsi account but it's a bit of a pain, especially
if I have to do it for both ends. Anyway, as other people seem to be
having the same problem, maybe it's not specific to a particular
server?

We're both using Comodo
firewall and Jitsi has a rule to allow all traffic.

What kind of rule is that exactly? Are you certain that any UDP sent in
response to Jitsi packets would arrive back to the client?

It's just an Application Rule that allows all traffic to/from Jitsi
but when I next get a chance, I'll try with Comodo disabled at both
ends. Maybe it also needs a Global Rule to allow incoming traffic but
I'd have thought that's only necessary for traffic that isn't
originated by an application on the PC. I'm not aware of any reason
why UDP wouldn't arrive back at the client but that's a bit over my
head I'm afraid.

Do I need to set
port forwards on both our routers as well?

No.

OK, good.

You are not expected to. However you XMPP server *is* expected to provide
you with a fallback relaying option.

Emil

So you think that ch3kr.net might not do this? I thought it would be
OK as it scored AA on this list https://xmpp.net/directory.php I know
that's for security rather than features but I guess I assumed that if
they'd got that right, it should all work.

Regards
Derek

···

On 16 January 2014 20:22, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

On 16.01.14, 19:30, Derek Moss wrote:


#7

I was getting the same error when I tried making/receiving voice calls
to my brother last week as well. I haven't tried since as I don't
really know what I'm supposed to do to fix it.

I did reply with a suggestion. Did you try that?

http://lists.jitsi.org/pipermail/dev/2014-January/019523.html

No, sorry. I remembered you said something about checking we could
send/receive UDP but wasn't sure how to do that.

Netcat is generally a convenient way of doing that.

I forgot you
suggested trying a Jitsi account but it's a bit of a pain, especially
if I have to do it for both ends. Anyway, as other people seem to be
having the same problem, maybe it's not specific to a particular
server?

The way ICE works is that it tries to establish a direct connection in a variety of different ways and if they all fail, clients fall back to a service-provided relay. So yes, it can very well depend on the server.

So you think that ch3kr.net might not do this?

I have no idea.

I thought it would be
OK as it scored AA on this list https://xmpp.net/directory.php I know
that's for security rather than features

Indeed.

but I guess I assumed that if
they'd got that right, it should all work.

I wouldn't make such an assumption.

Emil

···

On 17.01.14, 01:19, Derek Moss wrote:

On 16 January 2014 20:22, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

On 16.01.14, 19:30, Derek Moss wrote:

--
https://jitsi.org


#8

I just tried ch3kr.net from behind a restrictive firewall and had problems
with it. I had no problem using the server at jit.si so I think the problem
is on ch3kr.net's end, or maybe their ISP.

(We are not able to run a server at home, but my girlfriend works for an
university and was able to setup a server in her office (with permission,
of course). (FYI, OpenFire on Debian stable.))

···

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk>wrote:

So you think that ch3kr.net might not do this? I thought it would be
OK as it scored AA on this list https://xmpp.net/directory.php I know
that's for security rather than features but I guess I assumed that if
they'd got that right, it should all work.


#9

No, sorry. I remembered you said something about checking we could
send/receive UDP but wasn't sure how to do that.

Netcat is generally a convenient way of doing that.

It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It doesn't
look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years either, so
I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway, users shouldn't
have to be messing about without Netcat and the like to be able to use
Jitsi. I could only potentially get things working between my brother
and myself because I can TeamViewer his PC but I clearly can't do that
for everyone I want to suggest Jitsi to in order to get it working and
people will just say it's too complicated and tell me to use Skype if
I want to talk to them.

I wouldn't make such an assumption.

So do you have any helpful suggestions on how to choose a reliable
XMPP that works with all Jitsi's features or are users supposed to
just create an account on each server in turn until they find one that
works? Do you think that would be acceptable to a new user who I might
want to encourage to use Jitsi?

Regards
Derek

···

On 17 January 2014 07:39, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:


#10

On what port and to which host, can you tell us specifically?

···

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:users-bounces@jitsi.org] On Behalf Of Emil Ivov
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 2:39 AM
To: Jitsi Users
Subject: Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?

The way ICE works is that it tries to establish a direct connection in a variety of different ways and if they all fail, clients fall back to a service-provided relay. So yes, it can very well depend on the server.

Emil


#11

Thanks for the info Ron. I'm not aware that Comodo would be considered
a restrictive firewall but I will try testing with it disabled at both
ends next time. If it still doesn't work, I'll try with jit.si
accounts and if they work, contact ch3kr.net to see if they can fix
the problem.

Regards
Derek

···

On 17 January 2014 17:28, Ron Wilson <ronw.mrmx@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> > wrote:

So you think that ch3kr.net might not do this? I thought it would be
OK as it scored AA on this list https://xmpp.net/directory.php I know
that's for security rather than features but I guess I assumed that if
they'd got that right, it should all work.

I just tried ch3kr.net from behind a restrictive firewall and had problems
with it. I had no problem using the server at jit.si so I think the problem
is on ch3kr.net's end, or maybe their ISP.

(We are not able to run a server at home, but my girlfriend works for an
university and was able to setup a server in her office (with permission, of
course). (FYI, OpenFire on Debian stable.))


#12

Hello,

>> No, sorry. I remembered you said something about checking we could
>> send/receive UDP but wasn't sure how to do that.
>
>
> Netcat is generally a convenient way of doing that.

It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It doesn't
look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years either, so
I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway, users shouldn't
have to be messing about without Netcat

Derek, please take the aggressiveness down a notch. Stop the violence!

You seem to have setup your own firewall and you asked here how to check if
that firewall currently blocks UDP. I gave you advice for one way of doing
so. You don't want to do that. Cool. Do it your own way. Why would you come
back at me for daring to answer with a tip that doesn't quite suit you?

I am not sure exactly how you read into my reply that Jitsi users should
use netcat. Jitsi users need an Internet connection that does not block UDP
and a service provider that provides relaying. That's all.

Determining if that's the case would primarily happen by consulting with
your internet, firewall and service providers.

I also suggested you should try jit.si. This would work as long as UDP is
not blocked on either of the participants. You refused. We would one day
also add support for TCP but we are not there yet, so until then, if you
don't have UDP then you can't make calls with Jitsi.

Exactly what else do you expect the Jitsi community to provide for you?
Send someone over to diagnose connections? Provide a call center telephony
service? Hire 400 extra developers to work at a faster pace?

Please keep in mind that we are doing our best. The repeated comments of
the kind: "but it works for me with Skype and you are so failing the
community by not working for me" are not helping anyone (well at least not
anyone other than skype who do get free publicity) and they are actually
somewhat unpleasant.

Emil

--sent from my mobile

···

On 17 Jan 2014 1:35 PM, "Derek Moss" <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> wrote:

On 17 January 2014 07:39, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

and the like to be able to use
Jitsi. I could only potentially get things working between my brother
and myself because I can TeamViewer his PC but I clearly can't do that
for everyone I want to suggest Jitsi to in order to get it working and
people will just say it's too complicated and tell me to use Skype if
I want to talk to them.

> I wouldn't make such an assumption.

So do you have any helpful suggestions on how to choose a reliable
XMPP that works with all Jitsi's features or are users supposed to
just create an account on each server in turn until they find one that
works? Do you think that would be acceptable to a new user who I might
want to encourage to use Jitsi?

Regards
Derek

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#13

Hi Derek,

Ron is very accurate here. I personally don't see how this is an
application layer problem so you want to try ruling out all the other
layers of the OSI, right? If you think it is the application, install
something else on both ends and see if there are different results.

If the results are the same, work your way down the OSI model. tools like
wireshare/tshark, netcat, telnet, etc are things used to eliminate
problems. Netcat doesn't come installed on windows but neither do wireshare
and telnet.

Best of luck,
jungle

···

On 17 January 2014 15:59, Ron Wilson <ronw.mrmx@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk>wrote:

Thanks for the info Ron. I'm not aware that Comodo would be considered
a restrictive firewall but I will try testing with it disabled at both
ends next time. If it still doesn't work, I'll try with jit.si
accounts and if they work, contact ch3kr.net to see if they can fix
the problem.

It is also possible the problem is with either your ISP or your brother's
ISP. I'm
not sure how I could help you more as I am not a network technician. But
if I
have any more suggestions, I will offer them.

Unfortunately, there are many obstacles that the network equipment can
inadvertently put in the way of applications like Jitsi and even Skype.
But,
because Microsoft owns Skype, Microsoft can influence ISPs, the equipment
makers and the publishers of tools like Comodo to be friendly to
Microsoft's
products. So far, I have been able to work around those obstacle. I don't
expect other people to have either the technical background nor the
motivation. I am glad there are some who do.

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
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Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
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--
-------
inum: 883510009902611
sip: jungleboogie@sip2sip.info
xmpp: jungle-boogie@jit.si


#14

It is also possible the problem is with either your ISP or your brother's
ISP. I'm
not sure how I could help you more as I am not a network technician. But if
I
have any more suggestions, I will offer them.

Unfortunately, there are many obstacles that the network equipment can
inadvertently put in the way of applications like Jitsi and even Skype. But,
because Microsoft owns Skype, Microsoft can influence ISPs, the equipment
makers and the publishers of tools like Comodo to be friendly to Microsoft's
products. So far, I have been able to work around those obstacle. I don't
expect other people to have either the technical background nor the
motivation. I am glad there are some who do.

···

On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk>wrote:

Thanks for the info Ron. I'm not aware that Comodo would be considered
a restrictive firewall but I will try testing with it disabled at both
ends next time. If it still doesn't work, I'll try with jit.si
accounts and if they work, contact ch3kr.net to see if they can fix
the problem.


#15

Yeah thanks, it could be one or both ISPs but hopefully doing the
tests I mentioned before will narrow it down and if it works either
with the firewall disabled or using jit.si, I guess that will show
that the ISP isn't somehow blocking Jitsi.

If it does turn out to be the firewall, all I can do is post on
Comodo's forum and ask if they can make it more Jitsi/XMPP friendly
with an update, or try and find an alternative but I have tried almost
all of them and found Comodo to be the most usable, although frankly I
hate the way it's application rules list is presented so I might try
some others again to see if there's a better compromise.

Regards
Derek

···

On 17 January 2014 23:59, Ron Wilson <ronw.mrmx@gmail.com> wrote:

It is also possible the problem is with either your ISP or your brother's
ISP. I'm
not sure how I could help you more as I am not a network technician. But if
I
have any more suggestions, I will offer them.

Unfortunately, there are many obstacles that the network equipment can
inadvertently put in the way of applications like Jitsi and even Skype. But,
because Microsoft owns Skype, Microsoft can influence ISPs, the equipment
makers and the publishers of tools like Comodo to be friendly to Microsoft's
products. So far, I have been able to work around those obstacle. I don't
expect other people to have either the technical background nor the
motivation. I am glad there are some who do.


#16

Emil,

He is not aggressive, not a bit. He is not sounding aggressive at all and nothing in his posts even remotely suggested violence.

A number of people now are asking you of what Jitsi requirements are but you are not providing any information at all.
All we are looking for is a specification: what port on what host does Jitsi require to be opened, for which protocol and in which direction in order to provide user with voice and video chats.
Thank you
Alex

···

From: users-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:users-bounces@jitsi.org] On Behalf Of Emil Ivov
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 8:21 AM
To: Jitsi Users
Subject: Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?

It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It doesn't
look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years either, so
I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway, users shouldn't
have to be messing about without Netcat

Derek, please take the aggressiveness down a notch. Stop the violence!

Emil


#17

Hello,

>> No, sorry. I remembered you said something about checking we could
>> send/receive UDP but wasn't sure how to do that.
>
>
> Netcat is generally a convenient way of doing that.

It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It doesn't
look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years either, so
I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway, users shouldn't
have to be messing about without Netcat

Derek, please take the aggressiveness down a notch. Stop the violence!

You seem to have setup your own firewall and you asked here how to check if
that firewall currently blocks UDP. I gave you advice for one way of doing
so. You don't want to do that. Cool. Do it your own way. Why would you come
back at me for daring to answer with a tip that doesn't quite suit you?

I'm sorry but I don't see how anyone could read that as aggressive and
to suggest that I've somehow been violent towards you is both
offensive and unhelpful if you think things need calming down. I was
just pointing out that Netcat might be convenient for you but you need
to appreciate that not every Jitsi user has the same technical
knowledge as you and that using Netcat is actually rather inconvenient
for most users and to assume everyone else has the same technical
ability as yourself is actually rather inconsiderate..

I've installed a firewall, as should most users, so "setup your own
firewall" rather makes it sound like I've done something rather more
exotic and clever than I have. I didn't ask how to check if the
firewall is blocking UDP, I referred to you previous reply about
checking both of our networks allow sending/receing UDP and asked how
to do this. If the only thing that could be a problem is the firewall,
then the obvious test for that is to just disable it, so I assumed
your advice to check the networks would involve something rather more
complicated than that, or else you would have just suggested that, as
clearly disabling the firewall would be easier and more convenient
than trying to use Netcat.

I am not sure exactly how you read into my reply that Jitsi users should use
netcat. Jitsi users need an Internet connection that does not block UDP and
a service provider that provides relaying. That's all.

Determining if that's the case would primarily happen by consulting with
your internet, firewall and service providers.

In your previous reply you told me I needed to "make sure that both of
you have networks that allow sending and receiving UDP to the
outside." and when I asked how I was meant to check this, you
suggested using Netcat, so I'm not sure how you expect that to be read
other than "if Jitsi users are having problems they need to check that
both they and their contacts can send and receive UDP and the way I
recommend to do that is use Netcat".

Even consulting with our "internet, firewall and service providers" is
likely to be a long-winded and frustrating task of going through
various levels of technical support who can't answer the question. I
would hope that there's an easier way to test, perhaps another
commonly-used program that requires UDP or a simple "UDP test" that
users can use (maybe even a simple test could be incorporated into
Jitsi, considering it's so important to establish whether UDP is
working as a first step when diagnosing problems).

I also suggested you should try jit.si. This would work as long as UDP is
not blocked on either of the participants. You refused. We would one day
also add support for TCP but we are not there yet, so until then, if you
don't have UDP then you can't make calls with Jitsi.

I didn't refuse. I said I'd forgotten you'd suggested this and that
doing so would be a bit of a pain, which it will be and it will take
some time before I can arrange a convenient time with my brother for
me to test again using jit.si accounts, so I was trying to establish
why you thought jit.si should work when ch3kr.net didn't and whether
there were things that I might be able to test/adjust on my end in the
meantime, as if UDP is blocked at either end it's not going to work
anyway, so it seemed sensible to deal with this problem (if it exists)
before going to the trouble of creating a couple of jit.si accounts,
arranging a time to test with my brother, only to find it still
doesn't work and having no ideas about what else to try and having to
wait another week or two before I could arrange another time to test.
Frankly, I found your replies on this question "I have no idea" and "I
wouldn't make such an assumption", rather haughty and unhelpful and
suggested to me that you really had no reason to think that jit.si
would work better than ch3kr.net.

Exactly what else do you expect the Jitsi community to provide for you? Send
someone over to diagnose connections? Provide a call center telephony
service? Hire 400 extra developers to work at a faster pace?

Suggesting I've ever made any such demands is ridiculous and quite
offensive. All I would like is for Jitsi to be as easy for new users
to setup and use as possible, without having to mess around with
exotic diagnostic tools or creating multiple accounts with servers in
order to find one that works. I think a better question would be what
do you expect Jitsi users to have to do in order to get it working and
whether those expectations are reasonable or set the bar too high, so
that it scares users off and back to alternative programs?

Please keep in mind that we are doing our best. The repeated comments of the
kind: "but it works for me with Skype and you are so failing the community
by not working for me" are not helping anyone (well at least not anyone
other than skype who do get free publicity) and they are actually somewhat
unpleasant.

Emil

I don't and have never used Skype and I certainly don't think that
anyone has any obligations to a "community". I think the devs are only
failing themselves if they don't recognise and address any issues that
Jitsi has that make it too hard for the average user, as this will
limit it's take-up and I'm sure the devs want Jitsi to become popular
and widely-used. Anyway, that's exactly the sort of thing people say
to me "Why are we messing about with this Jitsi and all it's problems
rather than just using Skype" and "What's the point in Jitsi if I
can't talk to Skype users". There's nothing "unpleasant" about such
questions (it's rather offensive to suggest someone is being
unpleasant by asking them though or to falsely attribute comments to
someone), people are perfectly entitled to ask them and at the moment
my only answer is really "Jitsi encrypts your comms, whereas Skype
doesn't, so please stick with it until we can get it working for the
sake of your privacy" but it can be a hard sell for a lot of people
and they'd rather take the risk that the authorities might listen to
their conversations than not be able to have conversations at all.

If Jitsi was easier to set up and get working, then it would be a lot
easier to persuade users to switch to it and eventually negate the
second question, as most people would be using Jitsi/XMPP but
technical problems are making it hard to get to that point, which is a
shame.

Regards
Derek

···

On 17 January 2014 13:20, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

On 17 Jan 2014 1:35 PM, "Derek Moss" <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> wrote:

On 17 January 2014 07:39, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:


#18

Hi Alex,

In less time than it took me to read your recent inane rants on
PulseAudio, I was able to find the message archives for all of the Jitsi
mailing lists:

https://jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

HTH,

Steve

···

On 01/17/2014 07:01 AM, Alex Malmyguine wrote:

Emil,

The subject of this thread is that question that you contend was never asked. It's in this very subject.

Notice as well that I do not have access to the archive of this list - only to the messages since I joined.

The best part is that I don't need to use Jitsi - I tried, found that it is not working and there is no support, and I can now switch to something else. Now that it is clear that you choose to spend all the time lecturing users of what/how we can and cannot say instead of creating a piece of documentation with all the answers that you supposedly already posted, so that we could refer to it from the get go instead of going thru the trouble of posting to the list, the only pending action on my part is to uninstall Jitsi and unsubscribe from the list.

Thank you
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Emil Ivov [mailto:emcho@jitsi.org]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 9:51 AM
To: Jitsi Users
Cc: Alex Malmyguine
Subject: Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?

Alex,

Following your private mail to me, which I find *incredibly* offensive, I would rather not respond to your e-mails any more. Hopefully you'd get answers from other community members.

That said I do have one comment on what you are saying:

On 17.01.14, 15:36, Alex Malmyguine wrote:

A number of people now are asking you of what Jitsi requirements are
but you are not providing any information at all.

All we are looking for is a specification: what port on what host does
Jitsi require to be opened,

A) I don't think that specific question has been asked in the recent days. Feel free to provide a reference from the archives that proves me wrong.

B) That question has been asked and answered many times on this list in the past and has been answered almost every time. Obviously, for the reason I stated above, I am not going to answer it in this specific message.

C) I do believe that the questions asked in this thread have indeed been answered.

Emil

Thank you

Alex

*From:*users-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:users-bounces@jitsi.org] *On
Behalf Of *Emil Ivov
*Sent:* Friday, January 17, 2014 8:21 AM
*To:* Jitsi Users
*Subject:* Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and
video calls from and to Internet?

> It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It
doesn't > look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years
either, so > I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway,
users shouldn't > have to be messing about without Netcat

Derek, please take the aggressiveness down a notch. Stop the violence!

Emil

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#19

That's fine, Steve, I was not looking for them as I am no longer interested. And not subscribed to the list too.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:users-bounces@jitsi.org] On Behalf Of Steve Havelka
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 11:42 AM
To: users@jitsi.org
Subject: Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?

Hi Alex,

In less time than it took me to read your recent inane rants on PulseAudio, I was able to find the message archives for all of the Jitsi mailing lists:

https://jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

HTH,

Steve

On 01/17/2014 07:01 AM, Alex Malmyguine wrote:

Emil,

The subject of this thread is that question that you contend was never asked. It's in this very subject.

Notice as well that I do not have access to the archive of this list - only to the messages since I joined.

The best part is that I don't need to use Jitsi - I tried, found that it is not working and there is no support, and I can now switch to something else. Now that it is clear that you choose to spend all the time lecturing users of what/how we can and cannot say instead of creating a piece of documentation with all the answers that you supposedly already posted, so that we could refer to it from the get go instead of going thru the trouble of posting to the list, the only pending action on my part is to uninstall Jitsi and unsubscribe from the list.

Thank you
Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Emil Ivov [mailto:emcho@jitsi.org]
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 9:51 AM
To: Jitsi Users
Cc: Alex Malmyguine
Subject: Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and video calls from and to Internet?

Alex,

Following your private mail to me, which I find *incredibly* offensive, I would rather not respond to your e-mails any more. Hopefully you'd get answers from other community members.

That said I do have one comment on what you are saying:

On 17.01.14, 15:36, Alex Malmyguine wrote:

A number of people now are asking you of what Jitsi requirements are
but you are not providing any information at all.

All we are looking for is a specification: what port on what host
does Jitsi require to be opened,

A) I don't think that specific question has been asked in the recent days. Feel free to provide a reference from the archives that proves me wrong.

B) That question has been asked and answered many times on this list in the past and has been answered almost every time. Obviously, for the reason I stated above, I am not going to answer it in this specific message.

C) I do believe that the questions asked in this thread have indeed been answered.

Emil

Thank you

Alex

*From:*users-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:users-bounces@jitsi.org] *On
Behalf Of *Emil Ivov
*Sent:* Friday, January 17, 2014 8:21 AM
*To:* Jitsi Users
*Subject:* Re: [jitsi-users] What does Jitsi require for voice and
video calls from and to Internet?

> It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It
doesn't > look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5
years either, so > I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64.
Anyway, users shouldn't > have to be messing about without Netcat

Derek, please take the aggressiveness down a notch. Stop the violence!

Emil

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

--
https://jitsi.org

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users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

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#20

It might be convenient if you already know how to use it. It doesn't
look like the Windows port has been updated in over 5 years either, so
I'm not sure it would even work with Win7 x64. Anyway, users shouldn't
have to be messing about without Netcat

1

I was
just pointing out that Netcat might be convenient for you but you need
to appreciate that not every Jitsi user has the same technical
knowledge as you and that using Netcat is actually rather inconvenient
for most users and to assume everyone else has the same technical
ability as yourself is actually rather inconsiderate..

2

so I'm not sure how you expect that to be read
other than "if Jitsi users are having problems they need to check that
both they and their contacts can send and receive UDP and the way I
recommend to do that is use Netcat".

3

I
would hope that there's an easier way to test, perhaps another
commonly-used program that requires UDP or a simple "UDP test" that
users can use (maybe even a simple test could be incorporated into
Jitsi, considering it's so important to establish whether UDP is
working as a first step when diagnosing problems).

4

and whether
there were things that I might be able to test/adjust on my end in the
meantime, as if UDP is blocked at either end it's not going to work
anyway, so it seemed sensible to deal with this problem (if it exists)
before going to the trouble of creating a couple of jit.si accounts,

Going to the trouble of creating a couple of jit.si accounts? Seriously? That would take you all of exactly 20 seconds. Pretending that this would be too much trouble is could be seen as extremely offensive to someone who has just spent about 50 times more to answer your question.

Do you really not see this?

arranging a time to test with my brother, only to find it still
doesn't work and having no ideas about what else to try and having to
wait another week or two before I could arrange another time to test.
Frankly, I found your replies on this question "I have no idea" and "I
wouldn't make such an assumption", rather haughty and unhelpful

Huh? Haughty and unhelpful? I have never used to ch3kr.net and have no idea about hey they are setup. I would definitely not assume that they provide relaying just because they pass a security test because the two are unrelated. Which part of this is haughty?

and
suggested to me that you really had no reason to think that jit.si
would work better than ch3kr.net.

I have explained my reasons in that same mail.

Exactly what else do you expect the Jitsi community to provide for you? Send
someone over to diagnose connections? Provide a call center telephony
service? Hire 400 extra developers to work at a faster pace?

Suggesting I've ever made any such demands is ridiculous and quite
offensive. All I would like is for Jitsi to be as easy for new users
to setup and use as possible, without having to mess around with
exotic diagnostic tools or creating multiple accounts with servers in
order to find one that works.

5

I think a better question would be what
do you expect Jitsi users to have to do in order to get it working and
whether those expectations are reasonable or set the bar too high, so
that it scares users off and back to alternative programs?

That would have almost (you still slightly suggest that we are idiotic geeks that need to be explained how simplicity is an advantage) been a reasonable question several mails earlier. Too late for that now.

I don't and have never used Skype and I certainly don't think that
anyone has any obligations to a "community". I think the devs are only
failing themselves if they don't recognise and address any issues that
Jitsi has that make it too hard for the average user, as this will
limit it's take-up and I'm sure the devs want Jitsi to become popular
and widely-used.

6

Anyway, that's exactly the sort of thing people say
to me "Why are we messing about with this Jitsi and all it's problems
rather than just using Skype" and "What's the point in Jitsi if I
can't talk to Skype users".

There's nothing "unpleasant" about such questions

Questions? What questions? There's statements. Questions would have been so much better!

my only answer is really "Jitsi encrypts your comms, whereas Skype
doesn't,

FWIW, that's actually not true. Communication with Skype is definitely encrypted.

If Jitsi was easier to set up and get working, then it would be a lot
easier to persuade users to switch to it and eventually negate the
second question, as most people would be using Jitsi/XMPP but
technical problems are making it hard to get to that point, which is a
shame.

7

OK. Given how this is the 7th time you have to tell us how making things simple is an advantage (duh!) then I think it should already be clear to you that the Jitsi developers are idiotic geeks that would just never get it. And besides you really seem to be having a problem communicating with some major jerks there, this guy Emil most of all. So this really sounds like the right time to simply move on and look for another way of communicating.

I am very sorry that you had to waste all this time with our project.

Good luck!
Emil

···

On 18.01.14, 00:22, Derek Moss wrote:

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