I think this is a productive exploration of ideas. I definitely agree
with the sentiment that Jitsi must promote XMPP foremost as it is both
an open standard and puts Jitsi in the best light in terms of features
supported. I always persuade a friend to try Jitsi + XMPP and they are
usually impressed by video chat and encryption (people DO care about
encryption more and more in the global internet-corporate-police-state
world). SIP is also worthy of being favored. The exact method of how
XMPP and SIP should be privileged I am not sure, but a "Set up an XMPP
account to get the most of Jitsi and Instant Messaging" screen might
be one way. For SIP, perhaps point out right away that you can call
regular phone lines with SIP, and present a list of providers. Perhaps
a change from the current situation might be to move ippi and iptel to
a sub-section of SIP accounts? Like "Add SIP account" is the first
option, and then "Add ippi/iptel/OTHER SIP account" is a follow-up
dialog? not sure..
Introducing XMPP and SIP up-fornt will be useful introduction for
people migrating to Jitsi from a desktop IM chat program perspective.
I bet when MSN goes down in favor of Skype, a bunch of folks who
dislike the Skype client (which is butt-ugly IMO) will be looking for
alternatives so expect some increased interest in Jitsi.
What is PSYC protocol? I never heard of it and don't see it on
From what I find on google, it looks like a marginal project.
On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 at 4:40 AM, "Emil Ivov" wrote:Hey
Please find a few in-line comments first and a more generic one toward
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I have been trying to get people to use XMPP in the real world
That's appreciated! Thanks!
there are some issues with Jitsi which hinder people from switching
It would be nice to have a "register" Button for XMPP in the
welcome-screen so first time users can just add an account and start
chatting instead of searching a jabber-server and figuring out how
register and finally logging in.
Well the welcome screen also allows the option to connect to Facebook
Google Talk so this should reduce the difficulty above.
I would recommend changing the
User-interface of the welcoming screen a bit so the XMPP-section of
the welcoming screen contains a register and a login button.
This would in fact be a bit against Jitsis nature as a multi
but I think it would be worth it.
Well, indeed it does contradict our nature a little bit, although I
wouldn't say that this is the main issue. There are many people out
there, using SIP as their main communications protocol. When such
download Jitsi they might find it confusing to see it appear as an
Also (If you realy want to be some kind of OpenSoucre Skype)
I don't think that "some kind of OpenSource Skype" is exactly what we
want to be but I'll take this to mean "an easy to use communications
you should fokus on one protocol (XMPP would be the best choice, I
guess; while it is inferior to PSYC its widely adapted and there
even PSYC support in Jitsi).
I don't mean dropping support for other
protocols by that but making XMPP more prominent. for example you
could add an Register for an XMPP account at jit.si to your website
and redesign your welcoming-screen:
Quick note: we already have the possibility to register new XMPP
accounts on servers that support this (with jit.si being the suggested
> XMPP |
> username password |
> login register |
I agree that we can add a registration button on the Welcome screen.
is in a dire need for a fresh coat of paint anyway.
> name pass name pass |
> name pass name pass |
> name pass name pass |
> login |
Note that this is pretty much what we have already, with the only
difference being that SIP and XMPP both share the first place.
If you want to get non-techies you need to make good default choices
for them (that does not mean taking choice away from techies).
I see what you mean and I do agree with this to some extent. There are
few things that are important to note here though.
First, we are not a service provider. It's not that we think there's
something wrong with being one, it's just that we aren't. A service
provider requires someone to maintain a service with a decent up-time,
pay for infrastructure and provide end-user support.
Services like Skype and Google Voice have also accustomed users to
able to make calls to the telephone network so some may say that this
a MUST have feature for any service provider.
We can do neither of the above things. We don't have infrastructure,
can't deal with billing users, working on preventing credit-card
assigning POTS numbers to accounts and all these things.
To take this a bit further: Jitsi as an open source project project
not do these things. This is not something that can be easily run by a
community. This is a commercial activity and it requires a commercial
entity with the proper business model to take care of it. Such
entities are free to use Jitsi as their default client. Many already
We do maintain the jit.si service but we are trying to make it clear
that this is mostly a proof of concept server. It is not a commercial
service, and is lacking a number of essential features such as user
support, failover, account administration or even the possibility to
reset one's password automatically.
Speaking with my BlueJimp hat on: at some point in the future we may
running a commercial-grade service but we are currently unable to go
down that route for a simple reason: we do not have the resources.
Maybe you should also think about changing the name XMPP back to
Jabber because, honestly, it just sounds better and is way more
Well, I agree it does but unfortunately so do Cisco. The Jabber name
a registered trademark and clients using this name have been actively
discouraged from continuing to do so.
(I know that this might be problematic)
What do you think about those Ideas?
I completely understand where you are coming from. Having a default
service does indeed allow for a lot of simplification, however it also
requires someone to provide and maintain this service.
I do think however, that having a default service is not the only way
make the application more user-friendly. Look at e-mail clients for
example: you don't expect Thunderbird to come with its own mail
and yet, despite its relative complexity when compared to Gmail or
Hotmail, it is still enjoying significant popularity.
Of course e-mail is a different universe but my point is that we could
simplify user experience in other ways. We could for example make it
easy for people to connect to and create accounts at a number of
existing third-party services. We already do this with services like
ippi.com and would be happy for us to add others to this list. We can
also make these more prominent on the user interface as you suggest
A good first step here would be to agree on the kind of services we
would like to pre-list in Jitsi and the requirements that they need to
satisfy. For example:
2. Have IPv6 support
3. Support TLS connections.
4. Allow for the ZRTP handshake to complete
5. Provide free of charge accounts (with the possibility to create
6. Allow use of HD audio codecs such as Opus or SILK.
7. Allow use of ICE
8. Provide a reliable relaying mechanism such as JingleNodes,
or hosted NAT traversal.
And maybe we could also encourage features such as PSTN calling.
Once we have a list of such providers, we could make them all easily
accessible from within Jitsi. Another option would be to randomly pick
one at first run and make it even more prominent to users (kind of
the Windows browser selection).
Does this make sense?
On 19.03.13, 21:12, Yannik Völker wrote:
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