[jitsi-users] Feature request thjat canb help elderly users


#1

Hi

I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not every one has great vision.

thanks


#2

I second this notion. Accessibility mode for the visually impaired would be an
absolutely excellent feature - especially if it automatically increased font
sizes in IMs as well. Ideally, I think something like that should be a box
that you would check during the installation process, as finding it in the
settings would be difficult for the very people it's intended to help

···

On Sunday 19 January 2014 11:08:23 calibu taranjik wrote:

Hi

I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that
it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate
through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi
version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen
space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not
every one has great vision.

thanks

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#3

Just to add on this point, if possible please make Jitsi play nice
with increased DPI settings, which my Dad needs to use (he even had me
set his 24" widescreen 1080p monitor to only use a 4:3 center box as
he found it too wide otherwise!) I know the Compatibility settings can
be used to make Jitsi "Disable display scaling on High DPI settings"
but I'm not sure if that will just make it display normal size, when
ideally all programs would use the increased DPI setting to appear
bigger and easier to see without causing any corruption issues.

Regards
Derek

···

On 19 January 2014 09:46, Asha'man <ashaman@necryptoconsulting.com> wrote:

I second this notion. Accessibility mode for the visually impaired would be an
absolutely excellent feature - especially if it automatically increased font
sizes in IMs as well. Ideally, I think something like that should be a box
that you would check during the installation process, as finding it in the
settings would be difficult for the very people it's intended to help

On Sunday 19 January 2014 11:08:23 calibu taranjik wrote:

Hi

I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that
it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate
through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi
version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen
space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not
every one has great vision.

thanks

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users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
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#4

Hi,

I agree with both of you , increasing font's size is very important also for people with no eyesight's problem. ( I think Yana already open a ticket about that ) . Another feature may be to have a simplified UI version with a few buttons (just a couple buttons) to enable with a checkbox switching between base and advanced options.

Regards,
Mark (mrK)

···

on 19/01/2014 10:46, Asha'man wrote:

I second this notion. Accessibility mode for the visually impaired would be an
absolutely excellent feature - especially if it automatically increased font
sizes in IMs as well. Ideally, I think something like that should be a box
that you would check during the installation process, as finding it in the
settings would be difficult for the very people it's intended to help

On Sunday 19 January 2014 11:08:23 calibu taranjik wrote:

Hi

I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that
it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate
through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi
version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen
space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not
every one has great vision.

thanks

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

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#5

I think for starters it would be great if the icons and the text in the standard window scales up and down with the window size. That would be a really good start in case providing a secondary menu is harder to achieve at the moment.

For example when the Jitsi window is full screen we could see large icons and big text, and same with the answering window.

thanks

···

19.01.2014, 13:51, "Asha'man" <ashaman@necryptoconsulting.com>:

I second this notion. Accessibility mode for the visually impaired would be an
absolutely excellent feature - especially if it automatically increased font
sizes in IMs as well. Ideally, I think something like that should be a box
that you would check during the installation process, as finding it in the
settings would be difficult for the very people it's intended to help

On Sunday 19 January 2014 11:08:23 calibu taranjik wrote:

�Hi

�I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that
�it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate
�through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi
�version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen
�space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not
�every one has great vision.

�thanks

�_______________________________________________
�users mailing list
�users@jitsi.org
�Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
�http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

,
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#6

Hey Derek,

Just to add on this point, if possible please make Jitsi play nice
with increased DPI settings, which my Dad needs to use (he even had me
set his 24" widescreen 1080p monitor to only use a 4:3 center box as
he found it too wide otherwise!) I know the Compatibility settings can
be used to make Jitsi "Disable display scaling on High DPI settings"
but I'm not sure if that will just make it display normal size, when
ideally all programs would use the increased DPI setting to appear
bigger and easier to see without causing any corruption issues.

It sounds to me that you are mostly disturbed by the aspect ratio (4:3
vs 16:9) and not the actual resolution (VGA vs 720p vs 1080p vs 4K).

Is that right?

If so then, yes, we'd also like to be able to support 16:9, at least
whenever it is available. Note however that while you have the viewing
experience at the receiving end, the aspect ratio is determined by the
sender. Currently Jitsi is preset to only send video in 4:3, because,
until recently, this was the most widely available option. While some
(even recent) web cam drivers don't support it yet, 16:9 is indeed
generally available today so we are likely to try and make that the
default in future versions.

That's actually what we already have at JitMeet (try it out at
https://meet.jit.si ) and this is important because:

As we have already mentioned several times on this list, Jitsi will be
replacing its swing interface with an HTML5 one. It is very likely
that there would be considerable reuse and code sharing between the
JitMeet interface and that new application.

Emil

···

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> wrote:

Regards
Derek

On 19 January 2014 09:46, Asha'man <ashaman@necryptoconsulting.com> wrote:

I second this notion. Accessibility mode for the visually impaired would be an
absolutely excellent feature - especially if it automatically increased font
sizes in IMs as well. Ideally, I think something like that should be a box
that you would check during the installation process, as finding it in the
settings would be difficult for the very people it's intended to help

On Sunday 19 January 2014 11:08:23 calibu taranjik wrote:

Hi

I have been using Jitsi with my older folks. Everything is great except that
it is very hard for older people or people with vision problems to navigate
through or even answer phones. It would be so great if there is a Jitsi
version with giant icons (large icons that takes up almost all the screen
space) and giant texts. I know it sounds so obnoxious but trust me not
every one has great vision.

thanks

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
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--
Emil Ivov, Ph.D. 67000 Strasbourg,
Project Lead France
Jitsi
emcho@jitsi.org PHONE: +33.1.77.62.43.30
https://jitsi.org FAX: +33.1.77.62.47.31


#7

Sorry if I wasn't clear Emil but I wasn't talking about video at all,
just how Jitsi's GUI might appear to my Dad with Windows set to use
increased (I think he uses 125%) DPI.

It may be there isn't a problem as he hasn't used it much yet
(although he wouldn't necessarily identify or mention any issues if
there were any), I was just making a request/suggestion that this is
considered and checked for, particularly when updating the GUI code,
to make sure it displays OK as the devs probably don't need to
increase the DPI, so might not be aware that there can be issues. I
recall that MailWasher has an issue where the Settings can't be
accessed properly when using increased DPI and that's the sort of
thing I had in mind.

Regards
Derek

···

On 20 January 2014 00:29, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Hey Derek,

On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> wrote:

Just to add on this point, if possible please make Jitsi play nice
with increased DPI settings, which my Dad needs to use (he even had me
set his 24" widescreen 1080p monitor to only use a 4:3 center box as
he found it too wide otherwise!) I know the Compatibility settings can
be used to make Jitsi "Disable display scaling on High DPI settings"
but I'm not sure if that will just make it display normal size, when
ideally all programs would use the increased DPI setting to appear
bigger and easier to see without causing any corruption issues.

It sounds to me that you are mostly disturbed by the aspect ratio (4:3
vs 16:9) and not the actual resolution (VGA vs 720p vs 1080p vs 4K).

Is that right?

If so then, yes, we'd also like to be able to support 16:9, at least
whenever it is available. Note however that while you have the viewing
experience at the receiving end, the aspect ratio is determined by the
sender. Currently Jitsi is preset to only send video in 4:3, because,
until recently, this was the most widely available option. While some
(even recent) web cam drivers don't support it yet, 16:9 is indeed
generally available today so we are likely to try and make that the
default in future versions.

That's actually what we already have at JitMeet (try it out at
https://meet.jit.si ) and this is important because:

As we have already mentioned several times on this list, Jitsi will be
replacing its swing interface with an HTML5 one. It is very likely
that there would be considerable reuse and code sharing between the
JitMeet interface and that new application.

Emil


#8

Oh, OK. Well, in that case, personally I still have no clue as to what you
mean ... but that could just be me, so don't mind me.

--sent from my mobile

···

On 20 Jan 2014 2:47 AM, "Derek Moss" <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> wrote:

On 20 January 2014 00:29, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:
> Hey Derek,
>
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Derek Moss <dmts@stoptheviolence.co.uk> > wrote:
>> Just to add on this point, if possible please make Jitsi play nice
>> with increased DPI settings, which my Dad needs to use (he even had me
>> set his 24" widescreen 1080p monitor to only use a 4:3 center box as
>> he found it too wide otherwise!) I know the Compatibility settings can
>> be used to make Jitsi "Disable display scaling on High DPI settings"
>> but I'm not sure if that will just make it display normal size, when
>> ideally all programs would use the increased DPI setting to appear
>> bigger and easier to see without causing any corruption issues.
>
> It sounds to me that you are mostly disturbed by the aspect ratio (4:3
> vs 16:9) and not the actual resolution (VGA vs 720p vs 1080p vs 4K).
>
> Is that right?
>
> If so then, yes, we'd also like to be able to support 16:9, at least
> whenever it is available. Note however that while you have the viewing
> experience at the receiving end, the aspect ratio is determined by the
> sender. Currently Jitsi is preset to only send video in 4:3, because,
> until recently, this was the most widely available option. While some
> (even recent) web cam drivers don't support it yet, 16:9 is indeed
> generally available today so we are likely to try and make that the
> default in future versions.
>
> That's actually what we already have at JitMeet (try it out at
> https://meet.jit.si ) and this is important because:
>
> As we have already mentioned several times on this list, Jitsi will be
> replacing its swing interface with an HTML5 one. It is very likely
> that there would be considerable reuse and code sharing between the
> JitMeet interface and that new application.
>
> Emil

Sorry if I wasn't clear Emil but I wasn't talking about video at all,
just how Jitsi's GUI might appear to my Dad with Windows set to use
increased (I think he uses 125%) DPI.

It may be there isn't a problem as he hasn't used it much yet
(although he wouldn't necessarily identify or mention any issues if
there were any), I was just making a request/suggestion that this is
considered and checked for, particularly when updating the GUI code,
to make sure it displays OK as the devs probably don't need to
increase the DPI, so might not be aware that there can be issues. I
recall that MailWasher has an issue where the Settings can't be
accessed properly when using increased DPI and that's the sort of
thing I had in mind.

Regards
Derek

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users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
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#9

Larger text and fonts for old people with reduced eyesight :slight_smile:

Think Winamp's (if you remember that) "Double size" mode.

http://imageshack.com/a/img809/4255/k0ry.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img838/598/l344.jpg

FC

···

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Oh, OK. Well, in that case, personally I still have no clue as to what you
mean ... but that could just be me, so don't mind me.


#10

That part I do get. Font size is one of the things that will be much more
easoly adjustable with the new interface.

DPI though and spect ratio though... ? That I don't understand. Is the
point that hiher resolution screens can sometimes make things appear
smaller?

--sent from my mobile

···

On 20 Jan 2014 7:08 AM, "Fernando Cassia" <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:
> Oh, OK. Well, in that case, personally I still have no clue as to what
you
> mean ... but that could just be me, so don't mind me.

Larger text and fonts for old people with reduced eyesight :slight_smile:

Think Winamp's (if you remember that) "Double size" mode.

http://imageshack.com/a/img809/4255/k0ry.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img838/598/l344.jpg

FC

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#11

yes exactly.

The default resolution of very large monitors is larger, so Windows
defaults to the display's default size which ends up with a very large
desktop, and tiny fonts unless the OS increases the DPI.

In this case, the goodwill of the user "I have a dad with eyesight
issues, I'm gonna buy him a larger monitor" ends up creating more
problems than it solves, as probably the user will see bigger text by
running the display at 800x600. :wink:

FC

···

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Is the point that hiher resolution screens can sometimes make things appear
smaller?

--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell


#12

I want a cookie, I found the solution. Using the existing Swing interface :slight_smile:

http://ealf.googlecode.com/files/EALF_paper.pdf

Easy Accessibility Look and Feel for Java
LGPL License

"The Easy Accessibility Look and Feel is a set of Swing
Look and Feels that provides accessibility features. It was
designed to be very easy for the application developer to
enable accessibility for their application. In addition, it
allows end-users to customize which accessibility features
are enabled. It is open-sourced and is released under the
LGPL license."

http://code.google.com/p/ealf/

Files:
http://code.google.com/p/ealf/downloads/list

FC

···

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

That part I do get. Font size is one of the things that will be much more
easoly adjustable with the new interface.

--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell


#13

More:
These accessibility features would be used by the application user
(end-user) in a permanently enabled mode ("accessibility mode") or in
a temporarily enabled mode ("tutorial mode").

* The application developer just needs to enable the look and feel and
provide an XML configuration file to enable accessibility in their
application.

* Each accessibility feature can be selectively enabled.

Among them are:

···

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 4:23 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:

http://code.google.com/p/ealf/

Files:
http://code.google.com/p/ealf/downloads/list

====
We implemented the following accessibility features: Component Magic
Lenses for Zooming, Extended Tool Tips,
On-Screen Keyboard Display, and Audio Output.
The Component Magic Lenses are in reality more of a
component zooming tool. The “magic lens” is actually hidden. This
feature magnifies the component that is under the mouse pointer. The
multiplicative zoom factor is customizable by the end-user

So, if you need a beta tester, I'm ready. :wink:
I also wouldn't mind a special thanks section on the docs when
Jitsi.next is released with accessibility features.
;-)))
FC

--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell


#14

This is similar to Apple's retina displays. The retina displays are scaled with 200%, so one logical pixel geta rendered by four physical. Windows allows you to choose this scaling factor (125, 150, 175, 200). It makes your icons/windows/fonts appear at "normal" size on very high resolution screens OR it helps visually impaired people with normal monitors.
Now windows/widgets rendered by Windows usually behave normal, but as Swing doesn't use native widgets but its own paint(), this breaks badly. Probably on retina Macs too.

(And IMO one of the reasons why native widgets should be used instead of reinventing the wheel)

Freundliche Grüsse,
Ingo Bauersachs

-- sent from my mobile

···

Le 20.01.2014 à 07:13, "Emil Ivov" <emcho@jitsi.org> a écrit :

That part I do get. Font size is one of the things that will be much more easoly adjustable with the new interface.

DPI though and spect ratio though... ? That I don't understand. Is the point that hiher resolution screens can sometimes make things appear smaller?

--sent from my mobile

On 20 Jan 2014 7:08 AM, "Fernando Cassia" <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:
> Oh, OK. Well, in that case, personally I still have no clue as to what you
> mean ... but that could just be me, so don't mind me.

Larger text and fonts for old people with reduced eyesight :slight_smile:

Think Winamp's (if you remember that) "Double size" mode.

http://imageshack.com/a/img809/4255/k0ry.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img838/598/l344.jpg

FC

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users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
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#15

I see Fernando has explained the adjustable DPI issue. As for aspect
ratio, the my Dad found the 24" 16:9 1920x1080 monitor difficult both
due to the high resolution/small fonts & icons (which could probably
be corrected just by using Windows' font/icon size and DPI settings)
but also because the screen is physically wider than the 4:3 monitor
he was used to and he found it causes him strain having to pan his
head/eyes so much, so I've set it up to only display on a 4:3 1024x768
section in the middle (but done in a way that leaves the graphics card
actually outputting at the monitor's native resolution, to keep it
looking sharp, with the unused portions on either side effectively
just masked off as far as Windows is concerned), to simulate his old
monitor (but he still needs to use 125% DPI, probably to compensate
for the fact that, although physically larger, the LCD monitor is
physically further away than his old 4:3 CRT, due to the depth of
those things).

The only time he uses the monitor at it's full width and resolution is
when he flies X-Plane!

···

On 20 January 2014 06:12, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

That part I do get. Font size is one of the things that will be much more
easoly adjustable with the new interface.

DPI though and spect ratio though... ? That I don't understand. Is the point
that hiher resolution screens can sometimes make things appear smaller?

--sent from my mobile


#16

What you are all looking at is to draw the interface using metric
measurements rather than pixels.
So, in essence you can draw a 10mm high line of text or a 15mm icon and
let the OS deal with having to convert the users physical dimensions to
pixels per inch and then think how many pixels that 10mm line text needs
to be.

This, I assume is rather possible with standard windowing toolkits on
all platforms. The problem I guess would be to draw the UI elements to
align neatly.

~A

···

On 2014-01-20 08:19, Fernando Cassia wrote:

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Is the point that hiher resolution screens can sometimes make things appear
smaller?

yes exactly.

The default resolution of very large monitors is larger, so Windows
defaults to the display's default size which ends up with a very large
desktop, and tiny fonts unless the OS increases the DPI.

In this case, the goodwill of the user "I have a dad with eyesight
issues, I'm gonna buy him a larger monitor" ends up creating more
problems than it solves, as probably the user will see bigger text by
running the display at 800x600. :wink:

FC