[jitsi-users] Deleting history?_Proposal


#1

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl


#2

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default.

I'm glad someone brought this up. The default setting to log all chat conversations is a snoops dream and an insane setting for a privacy oriented app with.has bothered me for a long time, ever since I started using Jitsi and recommending it to others.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation is being logged.or not.

Good idea.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

Agreed, much how encryption can be dynamically enabled/disabled in the chat window with the click of a button.

···

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:05:25 -0700, Earl <Large.Files@gmx.net> wrote:


#3

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default.

I'm glad someone brought this up.

The default setting to log all chat conversations is insane for a privacy oriented application. It defeats the purpose of using OTR to achieve the ephemeral "private conversation in the woods", and is a forensic investigator's wet dream.

New users are going to be burned by the current default setting every time. Only power users bother to drill down into the application settings to disable chat logging.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation is being logged.or not.

Good idea.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

Agreed, much how encryption can be dynamically enabled/disabled in the
chat window with the click of a button.

···

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:05:25 -0700, Earl <Large.Files@gmx.net> wrote:


#4

I vote YES to all the points posted above! Thank you for taking this to
the developer's list Earl.

···

On 7/30/2013 11:05 AM, Earl wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording
history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel
after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list
after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have
this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens
and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

--
John Perry
xmpp://crypto@chat.jpunix.net
xmpp://chat.jpunix.net


#5

I forgot some things:

the JITSI code should check the remaining space on the specified logging drive
and if it fills up, the program should react gracefully and not crash. Even better
give a warning: drive space low!

I found that when not logging, there was not enough DRAM space dedicated to
window scroll and so parts of conversations were lost. Even with 8GB DRAM
I was not able to copy and paste the window history into a secure drive.
This should no longer be a problem when you can specify which drive and
directory to log to.

Regards, Earl

···

On 30/07/2013 18:05, Earl wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users


#6

Hi,

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to
have this in system settings. What should be mandatory in the
system settings is *IF* logging is turned on, there is a
possibility to determine which drive and directory the logging will
be done to. For example, one could specify that *IF* logging is
turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and *NOT*
to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not
this conversation is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad
screens and old eyes. Please see my attachment.

I'm all for it, and will turn all logging off as soon as this is
possible. However, I would be also fine with logging default on if
that's what others prefer, as long as I can turn it off easily and it
is clear immediately that chats are logged.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and
therefore are not so concerned. Please correct me if this
assumption is wrong.

I have (actually the full disk) and think this is something everyone
should do, but nevertheless I still don't want any logs to be kept. I
don't need them and if they aren't even there it is much better than
if they are, even if encrypted.

Not that I would be an important part of the Jitsi team or something,
but this is my opinion as regular (daily at the moment) user of
Jitsi's ZRTP calls. :wink:

Yours,
Daniel

- --
http://www.domob.eu/
OpenPGP: 901C 5216 0537 1D2A F071 5A0E 4D94 6EED 04F7 CF52
- --
Done: Arc-Bar-Cav-Hea-Kni-Ran-Rog-Sam-Tou-Val-Wiz
To go: Mon-Pri

···

On 2013-07-30 18:05, Earl wrote:


#7

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default.

I'm glad someone brought this up. The default setting to log all chat conversations is a snoops dream and an insane setting for a privacy oriented app with.has bothered me for a long time, ever since I started using Jitsi and recommending it to others.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation is being logged.or not.

Good idea.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

Agreed, much how encryption can be dynamically enabled/disabled in the chat window with the click of a button.

Encryption to a virtual drive will not be turned on or off. The encryption is always on. The only thing being
turned on or off is whether or not to write a log file to this virtual drive ( e.g. Truecrypt ). If you have dismounted
the virtual encrypted drive and continue to attempt to log to it, then JITSI should not crash, but return an error
drive not found or drive full.

Regards, Earl

···

On 30/07/2013 18:18, Seth wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:05:25 -0700, Earl <Large.Files@gmx.net> wrote:

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#8

A vote would really be somewhat irrelevant when it comes to new features. A patch for these would weight considerably more.

As for a default option: you can always use provisioning.

Emil

···

On 30.07.13, 18:15, John Perry - jitsi wrote:

On 7/30/2013 11:05 AM, Earl wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording
history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel
after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list
after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have
this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens
and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

I vote YES to all the points posted above! Thank you for taking this to
the developer's list Earl.

--
https://jitsi.org


#9

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default.

I'm glad someone brought this up.

The default setting to log all chat conversations is insane for a privacy
oriented application. It defeats the purpose of using OTR

No. It really doesn't. OTR is designed to protect you on the network. It has really nothing to do with what happens to the content once it gets to your computer.

Once it is there, logging is only one of you concerns. If someone has access to them you can speculate that they could also change your binaries and snoop on your conversations that way.

I am not saying that turning off chat logs is pointless. Quite on the contrary, but I think you are misrepresenting.

to achieve the
ephemeral "private conversation in the woods", and is a forensic
investigator's wet dream.

New users are going to be burned by the current default setting every
time.

Someone already made this point, but to add to it: I have personally been burnt, quite badly, from applications that don't save history by default. I think that's a higher risk.

I agree that options to indicate logging for all windows and to turn it off or clear it for individual contacts would be awesome.

Patches are welcome!

Emil

···

On 30.07.13, 18:26, Seth wrote:

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:05:25 -0700, Earl <Large.Files@gmx.net> wrote:

--
https://jitsi.org


#10

Thanks for taking this up Earl.

I think your ideas are very good. The only thing I can think of that
might add to them is perhaps to have a warning "Are you sure you want
to keep a record of this chat?" when enabling the logging, just in
case some people don't fully understand what Logging means.

···

On 30 July 2013 17:05, Earl <Large.Files@gmx.net> wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording history
defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel after
reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list after
a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have this
in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens and
old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users


#11

Agreed.

···

On 7/30/2013 11:19 AM, Earl wrote:

I forgot some things:

the JITSI code should check the remaining space on the specified logging
drive
and if it fills up, the program should react gracefully and not crash.
Even better
give a warning: drive space low!

--
John Perry
xmpp://crypto@chat.jpunix.net
xmpp://chat.jpunix.net


#12

Hi Emil,

can provisioning be used to specify logging to drive Q:\secret virtual drive and
never to drive C: ?

Earl

···

On 30/07/2013 18:33, Emil Ivov wrote:

A vote would really be somewhat irrelevant when it comes to new features. A patch for these would weight considerably more.

As for a default option: you can always use provisioning.

Emil

On 30.07.13, 18:15, John Perry - jitsi wrote:

On 7/30/2013 11:05 AM, Earl wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording
history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel
after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list
after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have
this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is *IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens
and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

I vote YES to all the points posted above! Thank you for taking this to
the developer's list Earl.


#13

Could you please open an issue for that, indicating the exact situations where you encounter problems (so that we could add proper handling to all the relevant places)?

Thanks,
Emil

···

On 30.07.13, 18:28, John Perry - jitsi wrote:

On 7/30/2013 11:19 AM, Earl wrote:

I forgot some things:

the JITSI code should check the remaining space on the specified logging
drive
and if it fills up, the program should react gracefully and not crash.
Even better
give a warning: drive space low!

Agreed.

--
https://jitsi.org


#14

I suggested provisioning for the default on/off setting.

Currently we just use the user home. If it's on Q:, then that's where we'll put it.

There's no way to currently change this though.

Someone suggested using an environment variable. I like the idea, so a ticket would be nice. A patch even nicer.

Cheers,
Emil

···

On 30.07.13, 18:38, Earl wrote:

Hi Emil,

can provisioning be used to specify logging to drive Q:\secret virtual
drive and
never to drive C: ?

Earl

On 30/07/2013 18:33, Emil Ivov wrote:

A vote would really be somewhat irrelevant when it comes to new
features. A patch for these would weight considerably more.

As for a default option: you can always use provisioning.

Emil

On 30.07.13, 18:15, John Perry - jitsi wrote:

On 7/30/2013 11:05 AM, Earl wrote:

Hi All,

having been disturbed myself for a long time with having recording
history defaulted
to yes and seeing this written to a non-encrypted C: drive, I now feel
after reading
various comments that I should make a proposal on the developers list
after a vote
on the users list.

My proposal:

1) JITSI should have logging turned off by default. No need to have
this in
system settings. What should be mandatory in the system settings is
*IF*
logging is turned on, there is a possibility to determine which
drive and
directory the logging will be done to. For example, one could
specify that
*IF* logging is turned on, it will be done to encrypted drive
Q:\secret and
*NOT* to drive C:.

2) Every chat window should have an indication of whether or not this
conversation
is being logged.or not.

3) Every chat window has the possibility to turn chat on or off
dynamically.

4) The logging indication should be very clear, even for bad screens
and old
eyes. Please see my attachment.

I assume that Linux people have their home drive encrypted and
therefore
are not so concerned. Please correct me if this assumption is wrong.

I ask for your comments and vote about this.

Regards, Earl

I vote YES to all the points posted above! Thank you for taking this to
the developer's list Earl.

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/users

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