[jitsi-dev] Very bad sound when 2 persons speak at the same time in a video bridge conference


#1

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus


#2

Sorry forgot to mention, I am running

jitsi-videobridge-linux-x64-113.

// Markus

···

On 2014-06-04 16:02, Markus Kil�s wrote:

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus


#3

Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi Conference?

···

On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kil�s wrote:

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus

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#4

No, Jitsi conference using the normal desktop client.

// Markus

···

On 2014-06-04 16:25, Emil Ivov wrote:

Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi Conference?

On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kil�s wrote:

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each
other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus

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#5

Echo cancellation in Jitsi only works for OS X (through the core audio
backend) and on windows through wasapi.

--sent from my mobile

No, Jitsi conference using the normal desktop client.

// Markus

···

On 04 Jun 2014 5:37 PM, "Markus Kilås" <subjunctive.post@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2014-06-04 16:25, Emil Ivov wrote:

Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi Conference?

On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kilås wrote:

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each
other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus

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dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
.

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#6

3 where on OS X and 3 on Linux. We did not have this issue last week but then we did audio conference without the videobridge.
I will try to see if I can reproduce it again, hopefully without having to call everybody again.

//Markus

···

On 4 June 2014 16:41:30 CEST, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Echo cancellation in Jitsi only works for OS X (through the core audio
backend) and on windows through wasapi.

--sent from my mobile
On 04 Jun 2014 5:37 PM, "Markus Kilås" <subjunctive.post@gmail.com> >wrote:

No, Jitsi conference using the normal desktop client.

// Markus

On 2014-06-04 16:25, Emil Ivov wrote:

Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi Conference?

On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kilås wrote:

Hi,

Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.

It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same

time

there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in

different

physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each
other.

The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that

no

two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of

inconvenient

and feels more like walkie-talkie.

Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?

Cheers,
Markus

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
.

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#7

Were you all using headsets? Were there other issues aside from the echo?

Did you try Jitsi Meet? Were there similar issues there?

--sent from my mobile

···

On 04 Jun 2014 6:58 PM, "Markus Kilås" <subjunctive.post@gmail.com> wrote:

3 where on OS X and 3 on Linux. We did not have this issue last week but
then we did audio conference without the videobridge.
I will try to see if I can reproduce it again, hopefully without having to
call everybody again.

//Markus

On 4 June 2014 16:41:30 CEST, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Echo cancellation in Jitsi only works for OS X (through the core audio
backend) and on windows through wasapi.

--sent from my mobile
On 04 Jun 2014 5:37 PM, "Markus Kilås" <subjunctive.post@gmail.com> >> wrote:

No, Jitsi conference using the normal desktop client.

// Markus

On 2014-06-04 16:25, Emil Ivov wrote:
> Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi Conference?
>
> On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kilås wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback loops.
>>
>> It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at the same time
>> there was this problem. This was even if the persons where in different
>> physical locations so not just caused by people sitting next to each
>> other.
>>
>> The only way to continue the conference was to try to make sure that no
>> two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of inconvenient
>> and feels more like walkie-talkie.
>>
>> Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Markus
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev mailing list
>> dev@jitsi.org
>> Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
>> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>> .
>>
>

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#8

Hi,

I just wanted to let you know that we haven't had this issue any more
and I am quite sure it was a problem of not using headphones.

When testing again, and making sure everybody was on headphones only,
there was no problem so the issue I had before was most likely from
someone with the speaker on.

Cheers,
Markus

···

On 2014-06-04 17:58, Markus Kilås wrote:

3 where on OS X and 3 on Linux. We did not have this issue last week
but then we did audio conference without the videobridge.
I will try to see if I can reproduce it again, hopefully without
having to call everybody again.

//Markus

On 4 June 2014 16:41:30 CEST, Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

    Echo cancellation in Jitsi only works for OS X (through the core
    audio backend) and on windows through wasapi.

    --sent from my mobile

    On 04 Jun 2014 5:37 PM, "Markus Kilås" <subjunctive.post@gmail.com > <mailto:subjunctive.post@gmail.com>> wrote:

        No, Jitsi conference using the normal desktop client.

        // Markus

        On 2014-06-04 16:25, Emil Ivov wrote:
        > Was that with Jitsi Meet and Chrome? Or was it a Jitsi
        Conference?
        >
        > On 04.06.14, 17:02, Markus Kilås wrote:
        >> Hi,
        >>
        >> Using the videobridge we experience a lot of echo/feedback
        loops.
        >>
        >> It seemed like as as soon as two persons were talking at
        the same time
        >> there was this problem. This was even if the persons where
        in different
        >> physical locations so not just caused by people sitting
        next to each
        >> other.
        >>
        >> The only way to continue the conference was to try to make
        sure that no
        >> two people was unmuted at the same time which is kind of
        inconvenient
        >> and feels more like walkie-talkie.
        >>
        >> Anyone experienced this or knows what the issue could be?
        >>
        >>
        >> Cheers,
        >> Markus
        >>
        >> _______________________________________________
        >> dev mailing list
        >> dev@jitsi.org <mailto:dev@jitsi.org>
        >> Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
        >> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
        >> .
        >>
        >

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#9

I can second Markus problemdescription. We had a conference of 6 participants,
all with headsets as it is mandatory in our conferences and everybody is
supplied with a USB-headset.
First we had a presentation over the videobrige which worked fine until people
started asking questions. As soon as more than one person participated in
alternating dialogue the voice-quality dropped dramatically. Noteworthy is,
that the participants did NOT need to speak at the same time - speaking in
turns with few seconds in between or even unmuting the mic was enough to cause
this problem.

Lateron we cancelled the videobridge-conference and switched to a normal
Jitsi-conference. Everything was fine and the problem did not occure, even
with multiple people talking. Nothing else of our setup was changed.

I haven't got any conclusive logs from the server. Is it possible, that we hit
the maximum amount of UDP-Packages which the network-device on the server is
able to relay in realtime? It had a taste of some kind of bottle-neck
condition, which is why I hesitated to report this problem here. As we all
have high-speed internet at our disposal I don't think that the problem is on
the client-side.

Kind regards

Jörn


#10

I can second Markus problemdescription. We had a conference of 6 participants,
all with headsets as it is mandatory in our conferences and everybody is
supplied with a USB-headset.
First we had a presentation over the videobrige which worked fine until people
started asking questions. As soon as more than one person participated in
alternating dialogue the voice-quality dropped dramatically. Noteworthy is,
that the participants did NOT need to speak at the same time - speaking in
turns with few seconds in between or even unmuting the mic was enough to cause
this problem.

Lateron we cancelled the videobridge-conference and switched to a normal
Jitsi-conference. Everything was fine and the problem did not occure, even
with multiple people talking. Nothing else of our setup was changed.

I haven't got any conclusive logs from the server. Is it possible, that we hit
the maximum amount of UDP-Packages which the network-device on the server is
able to relay in realtime? It had a taste of some kind of bottle-neck
condition, which is why I hesitated to report this problem here. As we all
have high-speed internet at our disposal I don't think that the problem is on
the client-side.

What makes you say that? The first thing that comes to my mind is that rendering multiple audio streams on Jitsi might not be working so well.

I assume that since you are using this thread your experience is about Jitsi and not Meet Jitsi. If that is the case, were you using the videobridge on jit.si or were you using your own?

Emil

···

On 05.06.14, 17:02, sirius83@gmx.de wrote:

Kind regards

Jörn

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#11

What makes you say that? The first thing that comes to my mind is that
rendering multiple audio streams on Jitsi might not be working so well.

If it would be a problem with rendering multiple audio-streams, changing from
video-bridge to the "adhoc"-conference would _not_ solve this issue - but it
does! No videobridge - perfect sound regarless of number of people speaking.

I assume that since you are using this thread your experience is about
Jitsi and not Meet Jitsi. If that is the case, were you using the
videobridge on jit.si or were you using your own?

We use our own bridge an a server rented for this purpose. So, if this doesn't
occure on the jit.si-hosted videobridge it has to be something on the server
side. Question is what is the culprit: The capacity of our network-device? The
system-load? On our machine there is nothing conclusive in the logs. I'll try
to get the people for another test-conference and have a look at stats of the
machine.

Jörn


#12

Well, ad-hoc conferences mix audio.
Jitsi Videobridge relays audio by default and clients receive a single stream.

But then again, if you have it all figured out, I would probably not be much help.

···

On 05.06.14, 22:14, sirius83@gmx.de wrote:

What makes you say that? The first thing that comes to my mind is that
rendering multiple audio streams on Jitsi might not be working so well.

If it would be a problem with rendering multiple audio-streams, changing from
video-bridge to the "adhoc"-conference would _not_ solve this issue - but it
does! No videobridge - perfect sound regarless of number of people speaking.

--
https://jitsi.org


#13

Well, ad-hoc conferences mix audio.
Jitsi Videobridge relays audio by default and clients receive a single
stream.

Mh. Okay. So, then we do have two different rendering-mechanisms.

Does Jitsi mix the audio before playback on the adhoc-conference-leader?
Because, if that's of any indicative value, audio was fine there, too - and we
invited all other participants from this account.

But then again, if you have it all figured out, I would probably not be
much help.

I never claimed to have it all figured out. I tried to make sense of my
subjective observations which is all what I can do in lack of any significant
logs and measurements. And personally I try to avoid blaming a problem on
somebody's software as long as I'm in doubt if the setup could be the culprit.

So: No offense intended.

Jörn


#14

Well, ad-hoc conferences mix audio.
Jitsi Videobridge relays audio by default and clients receive a single
stream.

Mh. Okay. So, then we do have two different rendering-mechanisms.

Does Jitsi mix the audio before playback on the adhoc-conference-leader?
Because, if that's of any indicative value, audio was fine there, too - and we
invited all other participants from this account.

But then again, if you have it all figured out, I would probably not be
much help.

I never claimed to have it all figured out. I tried to make sense of my
subjective observations which is all what I can do in lack of any significant
logs and measurements. And personally I try to avoid blaming a problem on
somebody's software as long as I'm in doubt if the setup could be the culprit.

In general the bridge would be the most unlikely culprit for issues with distorted audio. Those would be more likely to come from rendering. I don't know what your issue is so I am also speculating and to me, given your descriptions (i.e. audio is fine until a second person starts generating audio) make me think that Jitsi is not rendering the relayed audio streams very well.

I don't know if anyone would be able to look into this in the near future (speak up you brave soldier if you hear us!) so one thing you might want to try is deploy Jitsi Meet and see how this works for you:

https://jitsi.org/meet/deploy.

So: No offense intended.

None taken.

Emil

···

On 05.06.14, 23:37, sirius83@gmx.de wrote:

--
https://jitsi.org