[jitsi-dev] OTR message format vs. IRC commands


#1

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny


#2

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

···

On 23/07/14 23:23, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

I don't know about the details of the protocol per se but if you are
looking to implement it over IRC the you could start by looking at how
the irssi plugin does it https://github.com/cryptodotis/irssi-otr

They already have an OTR working over IRC.

Good luck.

- --

Don Alexander


#3

Hello Danny,

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

This is almost correct. I say almost because OTR may also "tag" outgoing
messages. If Alice wishes to communicate to Bob that she is willing to
use OTR, she can attach a special whitespace tag to any plaintext
message she sends him. This tag may occur anywhere in the message, and
may be hidden from the user.

···

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:23:17AM +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#4

Hi George,

Hello Danny,

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

This is almost correct. I say almost because OTR may also "tag" outgoing
messages. If Alice wishes to communicate to Bob that she is willing to
use OTR, she can attach a special whitespace tag to any plaintext
message she sends him. This tag may occur anywhere in the message, and
may be hidden from the user.

Great! I'm glad I asked. In that case it seems fairly innocent to
support IRC commands in the context of (at least) the OTR plug-in. I'll
go through with commands support in IM messages "section". It's trivial
to take it out afterwards anyways.

···

On 07/24/2014 09:35 AM, George Politis wrote:

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:23:17AM +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

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#5

Hi,

···

devel@roosoft.ltd.uk

  > On 23/07/14 23:23, Danny van Heumen wrote:

  > > Hi,

  >

  > > As some of you might remember from a while back, I've

been working on an

  > > implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet

for a while,

  > > but I've been able to pick up development again.)

  >

  > > In the mean time I have also implemented private

messaging as Instant

  > > Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available

now for this form

  > > of communication. I am wondering if someone knows

(intimately) about the

  > > message format that OTR produces, since I also like to

implement some

  > > IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

  >

  > > I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with

“?OTR”. Is this

  > > always the case?

  > > If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those

necessarily have

  > > to start with '/'.

  >

  > > Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases"

in Instant

  > > Messaging?

  >

  > > Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of

that would break

  > > because of the implementation of IRC commands?

  >

  > > As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC

commands only in the

  > > MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works

only in chat

  > > rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

  >

  > > Thanks,

  > > Danny

  >

  >

  > > _______________________________________________

  > > dev mailing list

  > > > > Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:

I don’t know about the details of the protocol per se but if
you are
looking to implement it over IRC the you could start by
looking at how
the irssi plugin does it

They already have an OTR working over IRC.

  > Good luck.
  >

  > _______________________________________________

  > dev mailing list

  > > Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:

dev@jitsi.org

http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

https://github.com/cryptodotis/irssi-otr

dev@jitsi.org

http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#6

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

I don't know about the details of the protocol per se but if you are
looking to implement it over IRC the you could start by looking at how
the irssi plugin does it https://github.com/cryptodotis/irssi-otr

They already have an OTR working over IRC.

To clarify this, I don't think this handles multi-user chats since it
relies on libotr and libotr can't do this (for now). It's for 1-1 chat
sessions.

···

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 01:24:05AM +0100, devel@roosoft.ltd.uk wrote:

On 23/07/14 23:23, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Good luck.

- --

Don Alexander
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#7

Hi George,

Hello Danny,

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

This is almost correct. I say almost because OTR may also "tag" outgoing
messages. If Alice wishes to communicate to Bob that she is willing to
use OTR, she can attach a special whitespace tag to any plaintext
message she sends him. This tag may occur anywhere in the message, and
may be hidden from the user.

Great! I'm glad I asked. In that case it seems fairly innocent to
support IRC commands in the context of (at least) the OTR plug-in. I'll
go through with commands support in IM messages "section". It's trivial
to take it out afterwards anyways.

I agree with you, it seems innocent. Just one more thing that you may
want to know about; OTR does not support (for now) multiparty chat
rooms, so you may have to disable it for those.

Cheers,
George

···

On jeu., juil. 24, 2014 at 06:26:58 +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

On 07/24/2014 09:35 AM, George Politis wrote:

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:23:17AM +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
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http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

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#8

I think that George's comment is correct.
IIRC multi-party OTR support (mpOTR) is still only a work in progress.
Right now we're limited still to 1-1 OTR chats.

···

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 8:30 AM, George Politis <gp@jitsi.org> wrote:

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 01:24:05AM +0100, devel@roosoft.ltd.uk wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 23/07/14 23:23, Danny van Heumen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
>> implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
>> but I've been able to pick up development again.)
>>
>> In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
>> Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
>> of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
>> message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
>> IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').
>>
>> I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
>> always the case?
>> If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
>> to start with '/'.
>>
>> Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
>> Messaging?
>>
>> Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
>> because of the implementation of IRC commands?
>>
>> As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
>> MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
>> rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Danny
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev mailing list
>> dev@jitsi.org
>> Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
>> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>
> I don't know about the details of the protocol per se but if you are
> looking to implement it over IRC the you could start by looking at how
> the irssi plugin does it https://github.com/cryptodotis/irssi-otr
>
> They already have an OTR working over IRC.

To clarify this, I don't think this handles multi-user chats since it
relies on libotr and libotr can't do this (for now). It's for 1-1 chat
sessions.

> Good luck.
>
> - --
> ==
>
> Don Alexander
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlPQUiEACgkQuipFNInZ6euPxACfVewCoJoJS3sK/nuFjwLjyBvo
> tFIAn23X+qqskX1VbSjl23MagemTp17G
> =2YrW
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev mailing list
> dev@jitsi.org
> Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

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#9

Hi George,

Hello Danny,

Hi,

As some of you might remember from a while back, I've been working on an
implementation of IRC protocol support. (It's been quiet for a while,
but I've been able to pick up development again.)

In the mean time I have also implemented private messaging as Instant
Messaging. This means that the OTR plugin is available now for this form
of communication. I am wondering if someone knows (intimately) about the
message format that OTR produces, since I also like to implement some
IRC "commands" (messages starting with '/').

I noticed that OTR seems to start in many cases with "?OTR". Is this
always the case?
If so, I can easily implement IRC commands since those necessarily have
to start with '/'.

This is almost correct. I say almost because OTR may also "tag" outgoing
messages. If Alice wishes to communicate to Bob that she is willing to
use OTR, she can attach a special whitespace tag to any plaintext
message she sends him. This tag may occur anywhere in the message, and
may be hidden from the user.

Great! I'm glad I asked. In that case it seems fairly innocent to
support IRC commands in the context of (at least) the OTR plug-in. I'll
go through with commands support in IM messages "section". It's trivial
to take it out afterwards anyways.

I agree with you, it seems innocent. Just one more thing that you may
want to know about; OTR does not support (for now) multiparty chat
rooms, so you may have to disable it for those.

I know. That's no problem. Currently I have implemented IRC channels
using Jitsi's MultiUserChat infrastructure and one-on-one communication
automatically goes via Instant Messaging infrastructure. As far as I can
tell, OTR is only available for Instant Messaging. So that goes
implicitly. Also, if things changes in the future, it most likely also
holds implicitly for IRC.

Greetz,
Danny

···

On 07/24/2014 11:08 PM, George Politis wrote:

On jeu., juil. 24, 2014 at 06:26:58 +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

On 07/24/2014 09:35 AM, George Politis wrote:

On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 12:23:17AM +0200, Danny van Heumen wrote:

Cheers,
George

Also, what is the general opinion about "special cases" in Instant
Messaging?

Are there any other reasons/plug-ins that you know of that would break
because of the implementation of IRC commands?

As an alternative I thought about implementing IRC commands only in the
MultiUserChat section of the implementation (i.e. works only in chat
rooms). This does not seem unreasonable either.

Thanks,
Danny

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

_______________________________________________
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#10

Hi Peter, George,

      > I think that George's comment

is correct.

  > IIRC multi-party OTR support (mpOTR) is still only a work in

progress.

  > Right now we're limited still to 1-1 OTR chats.

Yes, I know. My latest updates on news regarding OTR are exactly the

same. For now, I am focusing on the IRC implementation. The way
Jitsi works I integrate the IRC implementation into the Jitsi
infrastructure for Multi-User Chat and Instant Messaging. So, as far
as “implementing OTR” goes, I completely dependent on existing
infrastructure and implementation.

I try to connect IRC to Jitsi infrastructure as precisely as

possible, which means that I want 1-on-1 messages to go via the
Instant Messaging-infrastructure and normal IRC channels via
Multi-User Chat support. Hopefully, once the Jitsi OTR
implementation is extended to support multi-party OTR, it will
automatically be available for IRC. (Right now you’ll find that as
you open a channel, the menu for OTR secure chat facilities is
empty. This is due to the fact that a chat room isn’t part of
instant messaging.)

Kind regards,

Danny
···

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