[jitsi-dev] new homepage


#1

Dear Devs,
new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!

the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
screenshot of the first window.

kind regards, MS

PGP.sig (489 Bytes)


#2

Mine looks the same as in the snapshot. Ff 24.0 (fedora 19 with all
updates). No relevant plugins.

···

On Oct 24, 2013 5:09 AM, "Rouven Volkmann" <mail@rouven-volkmann.de> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:
> Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!
>
> the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
> screenshot of the first window.
>
> kind regards, MS
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ dev mailing list
> dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

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#3

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

···

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:

Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!

the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
screenshot of the first window.

kind regards, MS

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#4

MacOS 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0

attached screenshot of my firefox extensions

PGP.sig (489 Bytes)

···

On 10/24/13 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

* PGP Signed by an unknown key

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:

Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!

the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
screenshot of the first window.

kind regards, MS

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

* Unknown Key
* 0x46BA90DD(L)

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#5

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active. In particular it is
noticeable that the menus do not work, that prevents even downloading.
I would hope that the menus can be redone in CSS3, that would allow
drop down menus without the insecurity and trouble of javascript.
Once that usability / accessibility / security issue is resolved, it
could be nice.

My 0.02 EUR,
/Lars

···

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good
to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.


#6

Hi all,

It is now fixed on IE and FF, and should be fine on all browsers.

Thanks for the quick reports
damencho

···

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM, David Mansfield <dmansfield@gmail.com>wrote:

Mine looks the same as in the snapshot. Ff 24.0 (fedora 19 with all
updates). No relevant plugins.
On Oct 24, 2013 5:09 AM, "Rouven Volkmann" <mail@rouven-volkmann.de> > wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:
> Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!
>
> the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
> screenshot of the first window.
>
> kind regards, MS
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ dev mailing list
> dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

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#7

Yep. Looks great now.

···

On Oct 24, 2013 10:12 AM, "Damian Minkov" <damencho@jitsi.org> wrote:

Hi all,

It is now fixed on IE and FF, and should be fine on all browsers.

Thanks for the quick reports
damencho

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM, David Mansfield <dmansfield@gmail.com>wrote:

Mine looks the same as in the snapshot. Ff 24.0 (fedora 19 with all
updates). No relevant plugins.
On Oct 24, 2013 5:09 AM, "Rouven Volkmann" <mail@rouven-volkmann.de> >> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:
> Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!
>
> the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
> screenshot of the first window.
>
> kind regards, MS
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ dev mailing list
> dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
> http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev
>

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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#8

Hey Lars,

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good
to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active.

Yes, it does require Javascript and so did the old. We do not
currently have the possibility to support a non-Javascript version of
the site.

In particular it is
noticeable that the menus do not work, that prevents even downloading.
I would hope that the menus can be redone in CSS3, that would allow
drop down menus without the insecurity and trouble of javascript.

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities with
Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry about
that.

Emil

···

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Lars Noodén <lars.nooden@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

Once that usability / accessibility / security issue is resolved, it
could be nice.

My 0.02 EUR,
/Lars

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Jitsi
emcho@jitsi.org PHONE: +33.1.77.62.43.30
https://jitsi.org FAX: +33.1.77.62.47.31


#9

You mean like 1 month ago?

- --
Yannik V�lker

···

Am 24.10.2013 11:53, schrieb Emil Ivov:

Hey Lars,

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Lars Nood�n > <lars.nooden@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be
good to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active.

Yes, it does require Javascript and so did the old. We do not
currently have the possibility to support a non-Javascript version
of the site.

In particular it is noticeable that the menus do not work, that
prevents even downloading. I would hope that the menus can be
redone in CSS3, that would allow drop down menus without the
insecurity and trouble of javascript.

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities
with Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry
about that.


#10

Emil Ivov:

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities with
Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry about
that.

As Jitsi is implemented in Java you obviously need to be more concerned
about (potential) security issues regarding Java.

But JavaScript is still one of the main security concerns regarding the web.

Those interested in activities of Mozilla to protect against JavaScript
security issues should have a look here:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/FoxInABox
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis

Cheers,
Andreas

BTW: I am also a NoScript user, but I generally trust JavaScript code
delivered from the same domain as the html-page via https using a
verified certificate. But even that is no guarantee that the JavaScript
code is not problematic (especially if the domain owner thinks that
there can not be any issues regarding JavaScript :wink:


#11

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Hey Lars,

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good
to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active.

Yes, it does require Javascript and so did the old. We do not
currently have the possibility to support a non-Javascript version of
the site.

Actually the old one 'failed gracefully' in that it worked just fine
without javascript. That indicates superior design. This new one does
something extra to interfere with regular use. If CSS3 were used for
the menus and other effects, the same site could serve both javascript
and non-javascript visitors. JS should be an extra for those that want
it rather than a barrier for all. AFIAK the search engine spiders can't
deal with JS either.

Regards,
/Lars

···

On 10/24/2013 12:53 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Lars Nood�n > <lars.nooden@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

In particular it is noticeable that the menus do not work, that
prevents even downloading. I would hope that the menus can be
redone in CSS3, that would allow drop down menus without the
insecurity and trouble of javascript.

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities
with Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry
about that.

Emil

Once that usability / accessibility / security issue is resolved,
it could be nice.

My 0.02 EUR, /Lars

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#12

so far the same issues as reported previously on Firefox 24.0 (also I
rebooted Mac in between)
Looks however fine with Chrome and Safari, so it is related to FF.
(I am not an expert, sorry)

Mac OS 10.8.5
FF 24.0
Safari 6.1
Chrome 28.0.xxx

PGP.sig (489 Bytes)

···

On 10/24/13 5:16 PM, David Mansfield wrote:

Yep. Looks great now.
On Oct 24, 2013 10:12 AM, "Damian Minkov" < damencho@jitsi.org> wrote:
Hi all,
It is now fixed on IE and FF, and should be fine on all browsers.
Thanks for the quick reportsdamencho

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM, David Mansfield < dmansfield@gmail.com> wrote:

Mine looks the same as in the snapshot. Ff 24.0 (fedora 19 with all updates). No relevant plugins.
On Oct 24, 2013 5:09 AM, "Rouven Volkmann" < mail@rouven-volkmann.de> wrote:

* PGP Signed by an unknown key

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:

Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!

the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
screenshot of the first window.

kind regards, MS

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

* Unknown Key
* 0x46BA90DD(L)

* PGP Unprotected
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#13

I'm not a user of NoScript but I am noticing some issues in the JS code. I'm using the latest version of Chrome on Windows and seeing

[WARN] [blocked] The page at https://jitsi.org/ ran insecure content from http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Yanone+Kaffeesatz.

Given URL is not allowed by the Application configuration.: One or more of the given URLs is not allowed by the App's settings. It must match the Website URL or Canvas URL, or the domain must be a subdomain of one of the App's domains. ping?client_id=208022352590305&domain=jitsi.org&origin=1&redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fs-static.ak.fac.:1

[ERR] https://jitsi.org/wiki/pub/skins/simple/i/leaf.gif 404 (Not Found)

I might be interested in helping with the site. I work full time so progress might be slower than someone else who is able to work on this but I have experience with PHP and Ruby. I'm terrible at designs however but it seems like you're looking for someone who can clean up the markup/js etc, which I could probably take a stab at.

Also, can I enquire about the PmWiki backend? I'm VERY interested in updating the Jitsi documentation since this mailing list is continuing to answer many questions for me that I feel could be abstracted out to a knowledge base (particularly the vast array of .properties options and by extension provisioning techniques). Is access to this part of the wiki public or is it private? If private is it worth my time writing such documentation and sending it to someone? I would like to contribute (especially considering the relatively large volume of mailing list messages I continue to send) but given that I have limited time and capabilities at this time editing source code on such a mature project is unlikely at the moment.

Off Topic somewhat, I'm also involved in some internal testing of an XMPP/Openfire install that is internationally deployed, which seems to be uncovering some problems specifically around the way certain features interact with the way the SDES encryption is set up, so I'll be making some more detailed posts on how to replicate these issues. But as a matter of interest, is the SDES support for XMPP/Jingle considered "finished"? I don't want to waste your time with bug reports on the absence of unimplemented features. I made the somewhat rash decision to base our skinned fork of Jitsi on the master branch of Jitsi rather than a release version, so it could be simply that the features aren't "done" yet.

Thanks as always,
Toby Pinder

···

-----Original Message-----
From: dev-bounces@jitsi.org [mailto:dev-bounces@jitsi.org] On Behalf Of Emil Ivov
Sent: 24 October 2013 12:02
To: Jitsi Developers
Subject: Re: [jitsi-dev] new homepage

I do see what you mean and I do agree that, a site that falls back to
non-Javascript is superior to one that doesn't.

However, honestly, we currently have no time to continue working on the
site. If there are web developers here that have the necessary
experience and who would be willing to work on this, please let
yourselves known. This would be appreciated!

Emil

On 24.10.13, 12:20, Lars Noodén wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

On 10/24/2013 12:53 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

Hey Lars,

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Lars Noodén >> <lars.nooden@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good
  to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active.

Yes, it does require Javascript and so did the old. We do not
currently have the possibility to support a non-Javascript version of
the site.

Actually the old one 'failed gracefully' in that it worked just fine
without javascript. That indicates superior design. This new one does
something extra to interfere with regular use. If CSS3 were used for
the menus and other effects, the same site could serve both javascript
and non-javascript visitors. JS should be an extra for those that want
it rather than a barrier for all. AFIAK the search engine spiders can't
deal with JS either.

Regards,
/Lars

In particular it is noticeable that the menus do not work, that
prevents even downloading. I would hope that the menus can be
redone in CSS3, that would allow drop down menus without the
insecurity and trouble of javascript.

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities
with Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry
about that.

Emil

Once that usability / accessibility / security issue is resolved,
it could be nice.

My 0.02 EUR, /Lars

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
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--
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#14

I do see what you mean and I do agree that, a site that falls back to non-Javascript is superior to one that doesn't.

However, honestly, we currently have no time to continue working on the site. If there are web developers here that have the necessary experience and who would be willing to work on this, please let yourselves known. This would be appreciated!

Emil

···

On 24.10.13, 12:20, Lars Noodén wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

On 10/24/2013 12:53 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

Hey Lars,

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Lars Noodén >> <lars.nooden@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2013 12:05 PM, Rouven Volkmann wrote:

OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good
  to know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

For me the new page is broken and unusable. It must have been
misconfigured to require javascript because it seems not to work
properly at all in Firefox with NoScript active.

Yes, it does require Javascript and so did the old. We do not
currently have the possibility to support a non-Javascript version of
the site.

Actually the old one 'failed gracefully' in that it worked just fine
without javascript. That indicates superior design. This new one does
something extra to interfere with regular use. If CSS3 were used for
the menus and other effects, the same site could serve both javascript
and non-javascript visitors. JS should be an extra for those that want
it rather than a barrier for all. AFIAK the search engine spiders can't
deal with JS either.

Regards,
/Lars

In particular it is noticeable that the menus do not work, that
prevents even downloading. I would hope that the menus can be
redone in CSS3, that would allow drop down menus without the
insecurity and trouble of javascript.

While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities
with Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry
about that.

Emil

Once that usability / accessibility / security issue is resolved,
it could be nice.

My 0.02 EUR, /Lars

_______________________________________________ dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev

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#15

Thanks for the interesting links Andreas. I'm sure there are lots of
noscript or request-policy users, basically anyone who is
security-conscious uses something like that. On the other hand,
increasingly more websites seem to require js for increasingly more
stupid things, the newest trend being fonts. I don't understand why this
is, but I sure don't like that development.

I'm rather sure that the old jitsi homepage worked better without js
than the new one does (which is basically not at all).

@Devs: Please make up your mind regarding whether users should use the
dev oder users mailing list for reporting bugs. This was contradictory
on the old web page and still is, now even on the same page!
https://jitsi.org/Development/BugsAndIssues

According to this page, the users-mailinglist should be used for bug
reports: https://jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

I also don't understand why the dev uses old links on this spanking new
page, with a number of sub-pages I get 'moved permanently'-messages.

Regards,
Philipp

···

On 24 Oct 2013 13:06:37 +0200 "Andreas Kuckartz" <a.kuckartz@ping.de> wrote:

Emil Ivov:
> While there are issues with various browser plugins, insecurities
> with Javascript are really a thing of the past, so I wouldn't worry
> about that.

As Jitsi is implemented in Java you obviously need to be more
concerned about (potential) security issues regarding Java.

But JavaScript is still one of the main security concerns regarding
the web.

Those interested in activities of Mozilla to protect against
JavaScript security issues should have a look here:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/FoxInABox
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis

Cheers,
Andreas

BTW: I am also a NoScript user, but I generally trust JavaScript code
delivered from the same domain as the html-page via https using a
verified certificate. But even that is no guarantee that the
JavaScript code is not problematic (especially if the domain owner
thinks that there can not be any issues regarding JavaScript :wink:


#16

Hi,

Strange, same macosx and same FF and looks ok.

Regards
damencho

···

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:05 PM, Mr.Smith <mr.smith476@gmail.com> wrote:

so far the same issues as reported previously on Firefox 24.0 (also I
rebooted Mac in between)
Looks however fine with Chrome and Safari, so it is related to FF.
(I am not an expert, sorry)

Mac OS 10.8.5
FF 24.0
Safari 6.1
Chrome 28.0.xxx

On 10/24/13 5:16 PM, David Mansfield wrote:

Yep. Looks great now.
On Oct 24, 2013 10:12 AM, "Damian Minkov" < damencho@jitsi.org> wrote:
Hi all,
It is now fixed on IE and FF, and should be fine on all browsers.
Thanks for the quick reportsdamencho

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM, David Mansfield < dmansfield@gmail.com> wrote:

Mine looks the same as in the snapshot. Ff 24.0 (fedora 19 with all updates). No relevant plugins.
On Oct 24, 2013 5:09 AM, "Rouven Volkmann" < mail@rouven-volkmann.de > > wrote:

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OS, Browser and critical Extensions (Noscript etc) would be good to
know. Page works good on my up-to-date Firefox.

On 24.10.2013 10:25, Mr.Smith wrote:

Dear Devs, new homepage looks VERY nice - congratulations!

the writings are still shifted and overlapping - pls find attached
screenshot of the first window.

kind regards, MS

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#17

Hey Philipp,

@Devs: Please make up your mind regarding whether users should use the
dev oder users mailing list for reporting bugs. This was contradictory
on the old web page and still is, now even on the same page!
https://jitsi.org/Development/BugsAndIssues

I am sorry, I don't see where the contradiction is. Could you please point me to the text you have in mind?

According to this page, the users-mailinglist should be used for bug
reports: https://jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

Yup, that's what we encourage people to do for best results.

In practice developers get all the traffic anyway and we would accept any Jitsi related topic on either list.

This is not because we haven't made up our minds, but simply because that level of bureaucracy would be equally annoying to both users (for following it) and developers (for enforcing it).

I also don't understand why the dev uses old links on this spanking new
page, with a number of sub-pages I get 'moved permanently'-messages.

Could you please point me to the pages you are referring to?

Thanks,
Emil

···

On 24.10.13, 14:15, Philipp Überbacher wrote:

--
https://jitsi.org


#18

Hey Philipp

Hey Philipp,

> @Devs: Please make up your mind regarding whether users should use
> the dev oder users mailing list for reporting bugs. This was
> contradictory on the old web page and still is, now even on the
> same page! https://jitsi.org/Development/BugsAndIssues

I am sorry, I don't see where the contradiction is. Could you please
point me to the text you have in mind?

Hi Emil, the two contradictory passages are:

        Please, do not create or modify tickets in the issue tracker
        before discussing them on our dev mailing list. Any
        non-discussed issues will be marked as “Invalid”. Thanks a
        million!’‘’

and

        You can use it to report bugs and suggest new features but only
        after you discuss them with the developers on our users mailing
        list.

There was a similar contradiction on the old home page, but I never
came around to report this.

Right that was confusing. Fixed it.

> According to this page, the users-mailinglist should be used for bug
> reports: https://jitsi.org/Development/MailingLists

Yup, that's what we encourage people to do for best results.

In practice developers get all the traffic anyway and we would accept
any Jitsi related topic on either list.

This is not because we haven't made up our minds, but simply because
that level of bureaucracy would be equally annoying to both users
(for following it) and developers (for enforcing it).

> I also don't understand why the dev uses old links on this spanking
> new page, with a number of sub-pages I get 'moved
> permanently'-messages.

Could you please point me to the pages you are referring to?

Thanks,
Emil

https://jitsi.org/ -> JITSI -> XMPP Services
refers to http://jit.si/ and gets redirected (Moved Permanently) to
https://jitsi.org/index.php/Register/Register

https://jitsi.org/ -> DEVELOPMENT -> ice4j.org
refers to http://ice4j.org/ and gets redirected (Moved Temporarily) to
http://code.google.com/p/ice4j/

https://jitsi.org/ -> DEVELOPMENT -> TurnServer
refers to http://turnserver.org/ and gets redirected (Moved
Permanently) to http://turnserver.sourceforge.net/

These are the pages available through the main menu, I haven't tried
all other possible links. It's not a big deal, but those are
unnecessary indirections.

Thanks for the list. However, all of the above are perfectly
intentional redirections. We may soon decide to host ice4j and
TurnServer on github or to have a separate web registration page for
jit.si. We wouldn't want to have to go through all jitsi.org pages
when that happens.

Emil

···

On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Philipp Überbacher <murks@tuxfamily.org> wrote:

On Thu, 24 Oct 2013 14:55:15 +0200 > Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> wrote:

On 24.10.13, 14:15, Philipp Überbacher wrote: