[jitsi-dev] JITSI feedback for dev team, 3 years of lin/win/android use


#1

JITSI feedback for developers, after 3 years of use on linux + windows + android,
( all 3 are working ok )
feature request:

1. Need to add ENCRYPTION ON/OFF button to Call Window:
The reason is that there are instances where you don't need encryption
during audio or/and video calls,
for example if low bandwidth connection or in open conversation
it would be nice to be able to switch call encryption on and off
as needed to lower the bandwidth and resources.

( I know there is a way to change default encryption in
sip-communicator.properties
however this method is not convenient )

Example: I'm in open conversation with a person, but at
certain moment during the conversation I want to say some private information
like account number, address or phone number, I should be able to
click ENCRYPT=ON button, switch to encryption mode, relay sensitive information
and then switch back to normal mode

2. Need to add ( audio and video ) call QUALITY slider ( like volume slider )
to Call Window:
the reason is again to be able to control the bandwidth with the slider
min , low, med-low, med, med-high, high, hd
and be able to set those settings in options
for instance I go to options -> quality -> set
min = audio 8khz mono / video 160/100
low = audio 8hz / video 176/144
and so on
then before or during the conversion I click on quality icon and
adjust my settings according so that the bandwidth would not jam
tha channel
( for example: the main reason why skype is pain in the ass is because it constantly
trying to automatically adjust the bandwidth, and if bandwidth is
changing over the line or wifi then skype will chase the bandwidth
resulting in distorted audio / video or dropped calls )
Automatic quality adjustment is a bad idea !!!
The best way is to manually set the quality according so that
the channel can handle, that's what every Skype customer complains about.

Example: I call some person on the other side of the globe,
the connection is not too good, I click on QUALITY slider and
adjust my bandwidth down to low or min to maintain intelligible
conversation

3. It would be nice to add a feature to change displayed status for
individual contacts, for instance:
for contact1 - available
for contact2 - call me ASAP
for contact3 - busy
for contact4 - available
for contact5 - leave a message
for contact6 - offline

Regards.
Hal.


#2

Hello Hal,

JITSI feedback for developers, after 3 years of use on linux + windows +
android,
( all 3 are working ok )
feature request:

1. Need to add ENCRYPTION ON/OFF button to Call Window:
The reason is that there are instances where you don't need encryption
during audio or/and video calls,
for example if low bandwidth connection or in open conversation
it would be nice to be able to switch call encryption on and off
as needed to lower the bandwidth and resources.

( I know there is a way to change default encryption in
sip-communicator.properties
however this method is not convenient )

Example: I'm in open conversation with a person, but at
certain moment during the conversation I want to say some private
information
like account number, address or phone number, I should be able to
click ENCRYPT=ON button, switch to encryption mode, relay sensitive
information
and then switch back to normal mode

Using encryption (SRTP) does not increase the amount of bandwidth used. It has a small effect on the CPU usage, but probably negligible compared to encoding/decoding media.

Such a feature might be convenient for debugging purposes, but I think otherwise it would only confuse the users and leave open the problem with forgetting to turn encryption on.

2. Need to add ( audio and video ) call QUALITY slider ( like volume
slider )
to Call Window:
the reason is again to be able to control the bandwidth with the slider
min , low, med-low, med, med-high, high, hd
and be able to set those settings in options
for instance I go to options -> quality -> set
min = audio 8khz mono / video 160/100
low = audio 8hz / video 176/144
and so on
then before or during the conversion I click on quality icon and
adjust my settings according so that the bandwidth would not jam
tha channel
( for example: the main reason why skype is pain in the ass is because
it constantly
trying to automatically adjust the bandwidth, and if bandwidth is
changing over the line or wifi then skype will chase the bandwidth
resulting in distorted audio / video or dropped calls )
Automatic quality adjustment is a bad idea !!!
The best way is to manually set the quality according so that
the channel can handle, that's what every Skype customer complains about.

Example: I call some person on the other side of the globe,
the connection is not too good, I click on QUALITY slider and
adjust my bandwidth down to low or min to maintain intelligible
conversation

Personally, I'd much rather have the application automatically adjust to the current conditions and not bother me with settings that I don't care about.

Regards,
Boris

···

On 12/03/15 22:03, Hal wrote:


#3

Honestly, your responses indicate Jitsi is geared towards lazy/dumb users,
basically the same route as Skype took...
- automatic adjustment to bandwidth ( which does not work with skype ),
if you ever video called using skype across the globe with narrow bandwidth you'll
know it does not work... that's why many people pick Jitsi, precisely so that you
can tweak channel bandwidth in options, ie for instance for low bandwidth situation
where skype simply does not work, in Jitsi I just go into options and tweak
video to minimum size, frame rate to about 5 and audio to 8khz and encryption to off and it holds the channel !!!
where with Skype it does not pull it off
- no encryption on / off switch, again I tried many times with and without
encryption over low bandwidth and to be able to sustain a channel I had
to disable encryption with linux script, else audio and video just distorts a lot, meaning
encrypted call do require a faster connection ...

Again one of the main reasons people pick Jitsi over skype is ability to adjust the
channel in low bandwidth situations... with skype it;s not possible, everything
is automatic with minimum options ...

But may the chips fall where they will,
I just added my cents as a feedback ...

Regards.

···

On 03/12/2015 05:47 PM, Boris Grozev wrote:

Hello Hal,

On 12/03/15 22:03, Hal wrote:

JITSI feedback for developers, after 3 years of use on linux + windows +
android,
( all 3 are working ok )
feature request:

1. Need to add ENCRYPTION ON/OFF button to Call Window:
The reason is that there are instances where you don't need encryption
during audio or/and video calls,
for example if low bandwidth connection or in open conversation
it would be nice to be able to switch call encryption on and off
as needed to lower the bandwidth and resources.

( I know there is a way to change default encryption in
sip-communicator.properties
however this method is not convenient )

Example: I'm in open conversation with a person, but at
certain moment during the conversation I want to say some private
information
like account number, address or phone number, I should be able to
click ENCRYPT=ON button, switch to encryption mode, relay sensitive
information
and then switch back to normal mode

Using encryption (SRTP) does not increase the amount of bandwidth used. It has a small effect on the CPU usage, but probably negligible compared to encoding/decoding media.

Such a feature might be convenient for debugging purposes, but I think otherwise it would only confuse the users and leave open the problem with forgetting to turn encryption on.

2. Need to add ( audio and video ) call QUALITY slider ( like volume
slider )
to Call Window:
the reason is again to be able to control the bandwidth with the slider
min , low, med-low, med, med-high, high, hd
and be able to set those settings in options
for instance I go to options -> quality -> set
min = audio 8khz mono / video 160/100
low = audio 8hz / video 176/144
and so on
then before or during the conversion I click on quality icon and
adjust my settings according so that the bandwidth would not jam
tha channel
( for example: the main reason why skype is pain in the ass is because
it constantly
trying to automatically adjust the bandwidth, and if bandwidth is
changing over the line or wifi then skype will chase the bandwidth
resulting in distorted audio / video or dropped calls )
Automatic quality adjustment is a bad idea !!!
The best way is to manually set the quality according so that
the channel can handle, that's what every Skype customer complains about.

Example: I call some person on the other side of the globe,
the connection is not too good, I click on QUALITY slider and
adjust my bandwidth down to low or min to maintain intelligible
conversation

Personally, I'd much rather have the application automatically adjust to the current conditions and not bother me with settings that I don't care about.

Regards,
Boris

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#4

Hey,

Honestly, your responses indicate Jitsi is geared towards lazy/dumb users,

My first response was a statement of fact -- turning SRTP off will not reduce bandwidth consumption. My second response was a personal opinion, clearly indicated. I don't see how that indicates what Jitsi is geared towards. And I don't see why not wanting to bother with unnecessary technical details while talking to someone makes one lazy or dumb...

basically the same route as Skype took...
- automatic adjustment to bandwidth ( which does not work with skype ),
if you ever video called using skype across the globe with narrow
bandwidth you'll
know it does not work... that's why many people pick Jitsi, precisely so
that you
can tweak channel bandwidth in options, ie for instance for low
bandwidth situation
where skype simply does not work, in Jitsi I just go into options and tweak
video to minimum size, frame rate to about 5 and audio to 8khz and
encryption to off and it holds the channel !!!

I'm glad that works for you!

where with Skype it does not pull it off
- no encryption on / off switch, again I tried many times with and without
encryption over low bandwidth and to be able to sustain a channel I had
to disable encryption with linux script, else audio and video just
distorts a lot, meaning
encrypted call do require a faster connection ...

It doesn't. If you don't trust me, both the specification (RFC3711) and code are available. If you find a specific way to reduce bandwidth by turning off encryption, please let us know and we might consider it.

Again one of the main reasons people pick Jitsi over skype is ability to
adjust the
channel in low bandwidth situations...
with skype it;s not possible,
everything
is automatic with minimum options ...

But may the chips fall where they will,
I just added my cents as a feedback ...

Thank you for sharing your feedback, we really do appreciate it! I was just sharing my opinion, and I happen to disagree on some points.

Regards,
Boris

···

On 12/03/15 23:01, Hal wrote:


#5

A clearer example:

band width conditions = < 200kbs connection, more like 100kbs, fluctuates a lot, across the globe
type of call = video

skype - not working, garbled, dropped connection, non usable, junk ...
jitsi - set video win size to min, frame rate to 5, 8khz audio, encryption off - works!
encryption on - adding garble, becomes less reliable, don't believe me, check it for yourself...

And that is one of the main reasons ppl switch from skype to jitsi,
ability to adjust the channel so that it holds is rough conditions !!!

Given ideal conditions, for instance a call from US to US over broadband, then
Skype does the job and no question arises about alternative replacement,
else ppl look for something that works in rough conditions and far away...

In my search for alternative to skype, the conditions were:
- must work on linux, win, android
- must be able to adjust the band width
- must have encryption
- open source
- not stealing/trading you contacts, etc...

The only alternative I could find was Jitsi... I looked very extensively...
The band width adjustment is not explicit ( min, low, ave, high, hd ) , as you have to go through all advanced options to get
the desired bandwidth each time and the what baffled me is that there is encryption on/off for chat but not
for video/audio... what the heck ?

I was able to replace Skype with Jitsi and have a video call over low bandwidth connections across the globe...

I'm telling you, add a bandwidth slider( min, low, ave, high, hd ) + encryption on/off for video/audio + per contact custom status and it's
hands down winner... and don't go fully automatic adjustment ( in call band width measurement etc ) it's too complicated, does not work !

Best regards.

···

On 03/12/2015 06:21 PM, Boris Grozev wrote:

Hey,

On 12/03/15 23:01, Hal wrote:

Honestly, your responses indicate Jitsi is geared towards lazy/dumb users,

My first response was a statement of fact -- turning SRTP off will not reduce bandwidth consumption. My second response was a personal opinion, clearly indicated. I don't see how that indicates what Jitsi is geared towards. And I don't see why not wanting to bother with unnecessary technical details while talking to someone makes one lazy or dumb...

basically the same route as Skype took...
- automatic adjustment to bandwidth ( which does not work with skype ),
if you ever video called using skype across the globe with narrow
bandwidth you'll
know it does not work... that's why many people pick Jitsi, precisely so
that you
can tweak channel bandwidth in options, ie for instance for low
bandwidth situation
where skype simply does not work, in Jitsi I just go into options and tweak
video to minimum size, frame rate to about 5 and audio to 8khz and
encryption to off and it holds the channel !!!

I'm glad that works for you!

where with Skype it does not pull it off
- no encryption on / off switch, again I tried many times with and without
encryption over low bandwidth and to be able to sustain a channel I had
to disable encryption with linux script, else audio and video just
distorts a lot, meaning
encrypted call do require a faster connection ...

It doesn't. If you don't trust me, both the specification (RFC3711) and code are available. If you find a specific way to reduce bandwidth by turning off encryption, please let us know and we might consider it.

Again one of the main reasons people pick Jitsi over skype is ability to
adjust the
channel in low bandwidth situations...
with skype it;s not possible,
everything
is automatic with minimum options ...

But may the chips fall where they will,
I just added my cents as a feedback ...

Thank you for sharing your feedback, we really do appreciate it! I was just sharing my opinion, and I happen to disagree on some points.

Regards,
Boris

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#6

A clearer example:

band width conditions = < 200kbs connection, more like 100kbs,
fluctuates a lot, across the globe
type of call = video

skype - not working, garbled, dropped connection, non usable, junk ...
jitsi - set video win size to min, frame rate to 5, 8khz audio,
encryption off - works!
encryption on - adding garble, becomes less reliable, don't believe me,
check it for yourself...

What you describe is very poorly controlled and I am not convinced that there is any difference caused by encryption. It can be explained by random variations in link quality. And since the idea is implausible in the first place, I will not spend any of my time trying it.

*If* there is indeed a noticeable difference in the bandwidth or quality with encryption on and off, then there is probably a bug somewhere. And adding a button to disable encryption is not the right solution.

If you describe a specific scenario where you observe something wrong, I am willing to look into it, time permitting.

And that is one of the main reasons ppl switch from skype to jitsi,
ability to adjust the channel so that it holds is rough conditions !!!

Since you keep repeating this, should I assume that you have some data to back it up? That would be quite interesting.

Given ideal conditions, for instance a call from US to US over
broadband, then
Skype does the job and no question arises about alternative replacement,
else ppl look for something that works in rough conditions and far away...

In my search for alternative to skype, the conditions were:
- must work on linux, win, android
- must be able to adjust the band width
- must have encryption
- open source
- not stealing/trading you contacts, etc...

The only alternative I could find was Jitsi... I looked very extensively...
The band width adjustment is not explicit ( min, low, ave, high, hd ) ,
as you have to go through all advanced options to get
the desired bandwidth each time and the what baffled me is that there is
encryption on/off for chat but not
for video/audio... what the heck ?

You are more than welcome to implement this, use it yourself and share it with others. I don't think anyone here would work on it, however, because it is useless.

I was able to replace Skype with Jitsi and have a video call over low
bandwidth connections across the globe...

I'm telling you, add a bandwidth slider( min, low, ave, high, hd ) +
encryption on/off for video/audio + per contact custom status and it's
hands down winner... and don't go fully automatic adjustment ( in call
band width measurement etc ) it's too complicated, does not work !

I agree that having an optional slider (one that can be hidden via the configuration) would be better than the current situation, which is no adaptation. I think patches would be welcome (but Emil and the other developers might have a different opinion).

Regards,
Boris

···

On 12/03/15 23:37, Hal wrote:


#7

Ok, about quality/bandwidth slider, you already agree that it makes sense to add it...
The question is how implement it:
1. global setting somewhere in options, like they do in some voip phones during installation the program asks what type of connection speed you got and then globally adjusts video and audio settings the match the average bandwidth
2. local adjustment, ie you put quality slider on call window, ie
min ( < 128kbs )
low ( < 256kbs )
med-low and so on...
so that the user can adjust video audio quality / bandwidth during either
a. before ( static ) or b. during ( dynamic ) the call
3. local adjustment with extra feature that will remember the quality/bandwidth setting per contact
4. instead of 1 combine slider for both audio and video, you put 2 seperate sliders one for audio and another one for video
Just like the sliders to adjust Microphone and Volume, you can put Audio and Video on the opposite side or next to...

Bandwidth fluctuates and the factors are many:
network load, connection type ( 2G/4G/5G, idsl, dsl, cable, fiber ) , time of day, time of week, location separation,
number of hops, etc, etc... TOO many factors to try to adjust bandwidth on the fly automatically, that is precisely why skype automatic bandwidth adjustment is not working well resulting in user frustration, same thing happens with resolution adjustment on youtube... So the best way is let the user adjust with sliders.

About encryption, I don't understand why you call encryption on/off switch a stupid idea??? You already have encryption on/off for chat. To me it just makes sense to do the same for video/audio, besides if you ever seen secure line phones, they all have red and green button for open/secure connection.

Plus, encryption does affect bandwidth, here is paper to prove it:
http://openaccess.uoc.edu/webapps/o2/bitstream/10609/8727/1/2011_JMM.pdf

Basically encryption/decryption creates delay/lag in processing, which then impacts call quality and solution as a rule is to increase channel bandwidth
OR to decrease signal bandwidth...

And third about "data to back it up" , I've switched most of my skype contacts to Jitsi specifically for the reason that I can adjust signal bandwidth so I can have uninterrupted conversion. The general chatter on the web is that skype is not reliable in low or changing bandwidth conditions.

If you can place a Review on your website or during the program installation it will give you all the data you need about why peopel chose Jitsi, with questions like this:
- better quality ?
- more reliable connection ?
- ability to adjust quality/bandwidth?
- open source ?
- stronger encryption ?
etc...
You can then compile data on why ppl switch and even features they want added.

Gotta go.
Regards.

···

On 03/12/2015 08:12 PM, Boris Grozev wrote:

On 12/03/15 23:37, Hal wrote:

A clearer example:

band width conditions = < 200kbs connection, more like 100kbs,
fluctuates a lot, across the globe
type of call = video

skype - not working, garbled, dropped connection, non usable, junk ...
jitsi - set video win size to min, frame rate to 5, 8khz audio,
encryption off - works!
encryption on - adding garble, becomes less reliable, don't believe me,
check it for yourself...

What you describe is very poorly controlled and I am not convinced that there is any difference caused by encryption. It can be explained by random variations in link quality. And since the idea is implausible in the first place, I will not spend any of my time trying it.

*If* there is indeed a noticeable difference in the bandwidth or quality with encryption on and off, then there is probably a bug somewhere. And adding a button to disable encryption is not the right solution.

If you describe a specific scenario where you observe something wrong, I am willing to look into it, time permitting.

And that is one of the main reasons ppl switch from skype to jitsi,
ability to adjust the channel so that it holds is rough conditions !!!

Since you keep repeating this, should I assume that you have some data to back it up? That would be quite interesting.

Given ideal conditions, for instance a call from US to US over
broadband, then
Skype does the job and no question arises about alternative replacement,
else ppl look for something that works in rough conditions and far away...

In my search for alternative to skype, the conditions were:
- must work on linux, win, android
- must be able to adjust the band width
- must have encryption
- open source
- not stealing/trading you contacts, etc...

The only alternative I could find was Jitsi... I looked very extensively...
The band width adjustment is not explicit ( min, low, ave, high, hd ) ,
as you have to go through all advanced options to get
the desired bandwidth each time and the what baffled me is that there is
encryption on/off for chat but not
for video/audio... what the heck ?

You are more than welcome to implement this, use it yourself and share it with others. I don't think anyone here would work on it, however, because it is useless.

I was able to replace Skype with Jitsi and have a video call over low
bandwidth connections across the globe...

I'm telling you, add a bandwidth slider( min, low, ave, high, hd ) +
encryption on/off for video/audio + per contact custom status and it's
hands down winner... and don't go fully automatic adjustment ( in call
band width measurement etc ) it's too complicated, does not work !

I agree that having an optional slider (one that can be hidden via the configuration) would be better than the current situation, which is no adaptation. I think patches would be welcome (but Emil and the other developers might have a different opinion).

Regards,
Boris

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#8

+ some more links, on encryption vs bandwidth:

http://searchunifiedcommunications.techtarget.com/tutorial/VoIP-security-fundamentals#quality

http://searchunifiedcommunications.techtarget.com/tutorial/VoIP-bandwidth-fundamentals

http://searchunifiedcommunications.techtarget.com/tutorials?pageNo=2

Regards.

···

On 03/12/2015 08:12 PM, Boris Grozev wrote:

On 12/03/15 23:37, Hal wrote:

A clearer example:

band width conditions = < 200kbs connection, more like 100kbs,
fluctuates a lot, across the globe
type of call = video

skype - not working, garbled, dropped connection, non usable, junk ...
jitsi - set video win size to min, frame rate to 5, 8khz audio,
encryption off - works!
encryption on - adding garble, becomes less reliable, don't believe me,
check it for yourself...

What you describe is very poorly controlled and I am not convinced that there is any difference caused by encryption. It can be explained by random variations in link quality. And since the idea is implausible in the first place, I will not spend any of my time trying it.

*If* there is indeed a noticeable difference in the bandwidth or quality with encryption on and off, then there is probably a bug somewhere. And adding a button to disable encryption is not the right solution.

If you describe a specific scenario where you observe something wrong, I am willing to look into it, time permitting.

And that is one of the main reasons ppl switch from skype to jitsi,
ability to adjust the channel so that it holds is rough conditions !!!

Since you keep repeating this, should I assume that you have some data to back it up? That would be quite interesting.

Given ideal conditions, for instance a call from US to US over
broadband, then
Skype does the job and no question arises about alternative replacement,
else ppl look for something that works in rough conditions and far away...

In my search for alternative to skype, the conditions were:
- must work on linux, win, android
- must be able to adjust the band width
- must have encryption
- open source
- not stealing/trading you contacts, etc...

The only alternative I could find was Jitsi... I looked very extensively...
The band width adjustment is not explicit ( min, low, ave, high, hd ) ,
as you have to go through all advanced options to get
the desired bandwidth each time and the what baffled me is that there is
encryption on/off for chat but not
for video/audio... what the heck ?

You are more than welcome to implement this, use it yourself and share it with others. I don't think anyone here would work on it, however, because it is useless.

I was able to replace Skype with Jitsi and have a video call over low
bandwidth connections across the globe...

I'm telling you, add a bandwidth slider( min, low, ave, high, hd ) +
encryption on/off for video/audio + per contact custom status and it's
hands down winner... and don't go fully automatic adjustment ( in call
band width measurement etc ) it's too complicated, does not work !

I agree that having an optional slider (one that can be hidden via the configuration) would be better than the current situation, which is no adaptation. I think patches would be welcome (but Emil and the other developers might have a different opinion).

Regards,
Boris

_______________________________________________
dev mailing list
dev@jitsi.org
Unsubscribe instructions and other list options:
http://lists.jitsi.org/mailman/listinfo/dev


#9

By the way. Best codec for low bandwidth is opus. We use Opus for very
low bandwith
in a radio like installation. This means we have transmissions and wait
for the answer.
It is not like a continues bidirectional call. Opus also provides an
adaptive mode.
You also can set the parameters sampling rate, transmission rate and
paket length
manually. We use the following settings to achive a 15kbit/s bandwith!!!

Sampling : 8kHz
Rate : 8kbit/s
Paket length: 60ms

The overhead comes due to encryption. UDP is encrypted and then tunneld
in an encrypted
tcp session. This is why it adds up to 15kbit/s. So this conversation is
highly encrypted
but is able to go with 15kbit/s. If you want a lower delay then just
reduce the packet lengt
to, lets say, 20ms. You will end up then with 40kbit/s transmission
rate. But this is still
perfekt.

I agree that manually setting the parameters on the codecs etc. would
help a lot. Or use the
adaptive mode in Opus.

Cheers

···

Am 13.03.2015 um 20:16 schrieb Hal:

Ok, about quality/bandwidth slider, you already agree that it makes
sense to add it...
The question is how implement it:
1. global setting somewhere in options, like they do in some voip
phones during installation the program asks what type of connection
speed you got and then globally adjusts video and audio settings the
match the average bandwidth
2. local adjustment, ie you put quality slider on call window, ie
min ( < 128kbs )
low ( < 256kbs )
med-low and so on...
so that the user can adjust video audio quality / bandwidth during either
a. before ( static ) or b. during ( dynamic ) the call
3. local adjustment with extra feature that will remember the
quality/bandwidth setting per contact
4. instead of 1 combine slider for both audio and video, you put 2
seperate sliders one for audio and another one for video
Just like the sliders to adjust Microphone and Volume, you can put
Audio and Video on the opposite side or next to...

Bandwidth fluctuates and the factors are many:
network load, connection type ( 2G/4G/5G, idsl, dsl, cable, fiber ) ,
time of day, time of week, location separation,
number of hops, etc, etc... TOO many factors to try to adjust
bandwidth on the fly automatically, that is precisely why skype
automatic bandwidth adjustment is not working well resulting in user
frustration, same thing happens with resolution adjustment on
youtube... So the best way is let the user adjust with sliders.

About encryption, I don't understand why you call encryption on/off
switch a stupid idea??? You already have encryption on/off for chat.
To me it just makes sense to do the same for video/audio, besides if
you ever seen secure line phones, they all have red and green button
for open/secure connection.

Plus, encryption does affect bandwidth, here is paper to prove it:
http://openaccess.uoc.edu/webapps/o2/bitstream/10609/8727/1/2011_JMM.pdf

Basically encryption/decryption creates delay/lag in processing, which
then impacts call quality and solution as a rule is to increase
channel bandwidth
OR to decrease signal bandwidth...

And third about "data to back it up" , I've switched most of my skype
contacts to Jitsi specifically for the reason that I can adjust signal
bandwidth so I can have uninterrupted conversion. The general chatter
on the web is that skype is not reliable in low or changing bandwidth
conditions.

If you can place a Review on your website or during the program
installation it will give you all the data you need about why peopel
chose Jitsi, with questions like this:
- better quality ?
- more reliable connection ?
- ability to adjust quality/bandwidth?
- open source ?
- stronger encryption ?
etc...
You can then compile data on why ppl switch and even features they
want added.

Gotta go.
Regards.

On 03/12/2015 08:12 PM, Boris Grozev wrote:

On 12/03/15 23:37, Hal wrote:

A clearer example:

band width conditions = < 200kbs connection, more like 100kbs,
fluctuates a lot, across the globe
type of call = video

skype - not working, garbled, dropped connection, non usable, junk ...
jitsi - set video win size to min, frame rate to 5, 8khz audio,
encryption off - works!
encryption on - adding garble, becomes less reliable, don't believe me,
check it for yourself...

What you describe is very poorly controlled and I am not convinced
that there is any difference caused by encryption. It can be
explained by random variations in link quality. And since the idea is
implausible in the first place, I will not spend any of my time
trying it.

*If* there is indeed a noticeable difference in the bandwidth or
quality with encryption on and off, then there is probably a bug
somewhere. And adding a button to disable encryption is not the right
solution.

If you describe a specific scenario where you observe something
wrong, I am willing to look into it, time permitting.

And that is one of the main reasons ppl switch from skype to jitsi,
ability to adjust the channel so that it holds is rough conditions !!!

Since you keep repeating this, should I assume that you have some
data to back it up? That would be quite interesting.

Given ideal conditions, for instance a call from US to US over
broadband, then
Skype does the job and no question arises about alternative
replacement,
else ppl look for something that works in rough conditions and far
away...

In my search for alternative to skype, the conditions were:
- must work on linux, win, android
- must be able to adjust the band width
- must have encryption
- open source
- not stealing/trading you contacts, etc...

The only alternative I could find was Jitsi... I looked very
extensively...
The band width adjustment is not explicit ( min, low, ave, high, hd ) ,
as you have to go through all advanced options to get
the desired bandwidth each time and the what baffled me is that
there is
encryption on/off for chat but not
for video/audio... what the heck ?

You are more than welcome to implement this, use it yourself and
share it with others. I don't think anyone here would work on it,
however, because it is useless.

I was able to replace Skype with Jitsi and have a video call over low
bandwidth connections across the globe...

I'm telling you, add a bandwidth slider( min, low, ave, high, hd ) +
encryption on/off for video/audio + per contact custom status and it's
hands down winner... and don't go fully automatic adjustment ( in call
band width measurement etc ) it's too complicated, does not work !

I agree that having an optional slider (one that can be hidden via
the configuration) would be better than the current situation, which
is no adaptation. I think patches would be welcome (but Emil and the
other developers might have a different opinion).

Regards,
Boris

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