[jitsi-dev] How about removing GTalk calls support?


#1

Hey all,

For the past few years we've supported Google's version of Jingle, ICE, TURN and STUN. It's been quite an effort to implement it and no lesser an effort to maintain it. It's also never been entirely stable as we kept finding bugs here and there.

Today we have duplicated (but slightly different) code in Jitsi's Jabber provider and ICE4J that provides support for Google's outdated Jingle version. The added complexity has been a hurdle when doing some things such as implementing Jingle File Transfer with Pseudo TCP. The heavy lifting there is implemented but we didn't reach consensus on exactly how to architecture stuff.

Google were supposed to move to standard Jingle but that never really happened as despite their efforts they were still using GICE (and besides the standard Jingle version was never fully deployed across all services).

Today GTalk is being slowly phased out and replaced by Hangouts. While it is still possible to send and receive messages to Hangouts users, initiating Jingle calls with them is no longer an option.

I think this is a great time to get rid of the code that supported all this. This should bring us simplifications in Jitsi (so that we could finally add support for Jingle file transfers and pseudo TCP) and ICE4J (where could get to work on support for trickle ICE and ICE for SIP).

Obviously the code will always be there on GitHub in case we ever change our minds, but I don't see how we could.

Opinions?

Emil

···

--
https://jitsi.org


#2

With regret over what might have been, I agree with you.

Peter

- --
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

···

On 6/14/13 12:18 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

I think this is a great time to get rid of the code that supported
all this.


#3

As another option, how about spinning it out? Essentially spinning out that code into a separate Google to real jingle gateway? That way you could have the people needing it working on it, but delays due to google would not delay Jitsi. And if no one finds it needed, it will not get maintained...

This is assuming that it could easily be done this way. If not, no loss. Personally, I avoid Google services like the plague. (Or is that redundant?)

      Lee

···

On 06/14/2013 01:18 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

Hey all,

For the past few years we've supported Google's version of Jingle, ICE,
TURN and STUN. It's been quite an effort to implement it and no lesser
an effort to maintain it. It's also never been entirely stable as we
kept finding bugs here and there.


#4

Dear Emil, dear Devs,
what about "Jitsi for the masses - e.g to replace Skype?"

So far it is already very hard to change habits and convince users to
move to Jitsi and avoid Skype.

One of my favorite arguments was:
"just take your Gmail and register via the wizard at Jitsi and use it
instead of Skype - works even better and really protects your privacy
with secure end-to-end encryption!"

if GTalk support will be removed (the difficulties supporting Googles
jingle and hangout are comprehensible), the distribution of Jitsi will
probably be kept among more advanced users but not for uncle joseph and
aunt mary...

kind regards, MS
(I am not a programmer but aware of the huge effort behind creating such
a fantastic tool (Jitsi) which I use daily since years now...)

with NSA & Co it is very difficult to hide the identity (if required),
but at least the content of communication is secured by Jitsi

···

On 6/14/13 8:18 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

Hey all,

For the past few years we've supported Google's version of Jingle,
ICE, TURN and STUN. It's been quite an effort to implement it and no
lesser an effort to maintain it. It's also never been entirely stable
as we kept finding bugs here and there.

Today we have duplicated (but slightly different) code in Jitsi's
Jabber provider and ICE4J that provides support for Google's outdated
Jingle version. The added complexity has been a hurdle when doing some
things such as implementing Jingle File Transfer with Pseudo TCP. The
heavy lifting there is implemented but we didn't reach consensus on
exactly how to architecture stuff.

Google were supposed to move to standard Jingle but that never really
happened as despite their efforts they were still using GICE (and
besides the standard Jingle version was never fully deployed across
all services).

Today GTalk is being slowly phased out and replaced by Hangouts. While
it is still possible to send and receive messages to Hangouts users,
initiating Jingle calls with them is no longer an option.

I think this is a great time to get rid of the code that supported all
this. This should bring us simplifications in Jitsi (so that we could
finally add support for Jingle file transfers and pseudo TCP) and
ICE4J (where could get to work on support for trickle ICE and ICE for
SIP).

Obviously the code will always be there on GitHub in case we ever
change our minds, but I don't see how we could.

Opinions?

Emil


#5

It's Google that is dropping support for Jingle. There's no good
reason to keep around the code that enables you to interact using a
protocol that Google won't support in the near future.

Just my centigram of silver. :slight_smile:

Peter

- --
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

···

On 6/14/13 1:17 PM, Mr.Smith wrote:

Dear Emil, dear Devs, what about "Jitsi for the masses - e.g to
replace Skype?"

So far it is already very hard to change habits and convince users
to move to Jitsi and avoid Skype.

One of my favorite arguments was: "just take your Gmail and
register via the wizard at Jitsi and use it instead of Skype -
works even better and really protects your privacy with secure
end-to-end encryption!"

if GTalk support will be removed (the difficulties supporting
Googles jingle and hangout are comprehensible), the distribution of
Jitsi will probably be kept among more advanced users but not for
uncle joseph and aunt mary...


#6

This is a separate issue, but a valid one. We need a web page of tested and recommended providers, preferably that support federation and cross chat to other providers. That way when installed, we had a button that says "I need an account" and opens that page.

      Lee

···

On 06/14/2013 02:17 PM, Mr.Smith wrote:

One of my favorite arguments was:
  "just take your Gmail and register via the wizard at Jitsi and use it
instead of Skype - works even better and really protects your privacy
with secure end-to-end encryption!"

if GTalk support will be removed (the difficulties supporting Googles
jingle and hangout are comprehensible), the distribution of Jitsi will
probably be kept among more advanced users but not for uncle joseph and
aunt mary...


#7

Adding to what others already posted:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Dear Emil, dear Devs,
what about "Jitsi for the masses - e.g to replace Skype?"

So far it is already very hard to change habits and convince users to
move to Jitsi and avoid Skype.

One of my favorite arguments was:
  "just take your Gmail and register via the wizard at Jitsi and use it
instead of Skype - works even better and really protects your privacy
with secure end-to-end encryption!"

We will not be stopping this. As long as Google allow third-party clients to connect, you would be able to use Jitsi over their service. You would also be able to chat with Hangouts users from Jitsi. What you want be able to do is call GTalk users from Jitsi because GTalk will no longer exist.

if GTalk support will be removed (the difficulties supporting Googles
jingle and hangout are comprehensible),

We have never supported hangouts. I believe they do use XMPP at some level but their protocol has nothing to do with Jingle or Gingle.

the distribution of Jitsi will
probably be kept among more advanced users but not for uncle joseph and
aunt mary...

If uncle Joseph and aund Mary want to download Jitsi, nothing would really change for them other than the fact that they want be able to make calls to people who only use Gmail and not Jitsi. (They will be able to chat with them though. At least until Google block that too).

kind regards, MS
(I am not a programmer but aware of the huge effort behind creating such
a fantastic tool (Jitsi) which I use daily since years now...)

Thank you very much for your kind words. This is very much appreciated!

Emil

···

On 14.06.13, 21:17, Mr.Smith wrote:

with NSA & Co it is very difficult to hide the identity (if required),
but at least the content of communication is secured by Jitsi

On 6/14/13 8:18 PM, Emil Ivov wrote:

Hey all,

For the past few years we've supported Google's version of Jingle,
ICE, TURN and STUN. It's been quite an effort to implement it and no
lesser an effort to maintain it. It's also never been entirely stable
as we kept finding bugs here and there.

Today we have duplicated (but slightly different) code in Jitsi's
Jabber provider and ICE4J that provides support for Google's outdated
Jingle version. The added complexity has been a hurdle when doing some
things such as implementing Jingle File Transfer with Pseudo TCP. The
heavy lifting there is implemented but we didn't reach consensus on
exactly how to architecture stuff.

Google were supposed to move to standard Jingle but that never really
happened as despite their efforts they were still using GICE (and
besides the standard Jingle version was never fully deployed across
all services).

Today GTalk is being slowly phased out and replaced by Hangouts. While
it is still possible to send and receive messages to Hangouts users,
initiating Jingle calls with them is no longer an option.

I think this is a great time to get rid of the code that supported all
this. This should bring us simplifications in Jitsi (so that we could
finally add support for Jingle file transfers and pseudo TCP) and
ICE4J (where could get to work on support for trickle ICE and ICE for
SIP).

Obviously the code will always be there on GitHub in case we ever
change our minds, but I don't see how we could.

Opinions?

Emil

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--
https://jitsi.org